I wouldn't dismiss the thought that BankOne played a role here. They have the MileagePlus Visa cards they got from Firstusa and, except for the Amtrak deal and some odds and ends (eg. Starwood), if you want UA miles, you have to get their card.

Moreover, I think BankOne is providing financing for part of the UA bankruptcy. Last month Bankone raised their fees on foreing currency transactions to 3%. I have no inside knowledge, but it wouldn't surprise me if they insisted on exclusivity as to Visa and MC cards with UA. I think this move may not work since folks who get this far in the game would be most unlikely to shell out an extra 2 cents in hard cash to get a UA MP mile.

Amtrak pulled the plug on the big transfers into its program to get miles to UA a year or two ago. They did it then with no notice and no one seemed to take them to task. Thus, I am not surprised they have pulled the same thing again. Still, a lot of people who never go near an Amtrak train used that card and my guess is that well will turn to dust in a matter of days.

I'm lucky I converted 25K just a few days before they pulled the plug - they've already shown up in my UA account. I still have some CO miles which I plan to convert to Amtrak and use for train awards.

Crap. Making a 10k transfer was on my to-do list.

I'll switch that to-do to getting rid of my AMTRAK Mastercard....

I believe what they said is that they will increase their cut from 2% to 3% if Visa eliminates their 1%. The net effect to the purchaser is to keep the total extortion to 3%. That's why I only use MBNA credit cards (they don't charge any additional fee above the 1% Visa fee) or ATM cards (no fees at all) for foreign currency transactions.

That is not my understanding at all. I read that the Bank One fees were raised to 3% and I saw no mention of any offset by Visa or that the higher fees Bank One would impose were in any way conditional. I'd be glad to be wrong on this one-if you have something from Bank One saying otherewise, perhaps you could quote the relevant langauge since the notice from Bank One on this wasn't very clear.

"No fees at all" on using ATM cards overseas isn't quite right either. Even if your bank doesn't charge you a fee for using overseas ATMs, foreign banks and other ATM owners charge a fee for using an ATM which gets buried in the converted dollars charged to an ATM card used overseas. My bank used to refund those fees too but no longer does. If you know of one or more that refunds those fees, I'd love to learn about them.

Terrible way to run a railroad. The lack of notice was absolutely unconscionable. Use the ''contact us'' feature of the Amtrak website to let them know what you think of this, and how it will impact your desire to purchase Amtrak tickets in the future.

Unfortunately, I threw out the notice after reading it, and they won't let you access the cardmember agreement online - only via physical mail. I remember reading the notice carefully, since I got it after the first thread on this subject. Posts 4 and 5 of http://web2.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=377450 came to the same conclusion.

I've never seen an overseas ATM that charged a fee. There's nothing listed on the machines or the receipts, and my bank has confirmed the transactions were for "round" numbers of foreign currency units. For my most recent trip (Israel, Spain, UK), I've also confirmed that the exchange rates on my ATM transactions correspond pretty much exactly to my credit card transactions (after deducting the 1% Visa fee). So even if they do charge a fee, it's better than you can get through any other channel (the exchange booths are definitely the worst way to go).

I've never seen this "buried" ATM fee, either. Out of curiosity, I've calculated my exchange rate upon my return. It's always been the institutional rate -- can't beat it.

As for the 3% charge on credit cards, I think too much is made of this. If you have an airline card, you're getting miles worth something to you -- at least 1.5%. Alternatively, if you get a card that hits you for only 1%, your improvement is a mere 0.5% or less (depending on how much you value the miles/points). That works out to <=$5 for every $1,000 you charge in foreign currency.

Thus, "extortion" might be a bit strong.

Maybe, but it always annoys me when banks charge fees for no added value or expense on their end. But what else do you call charging money for nothing in return? (I could be cynical and call it "capitalism", but that seems like a bit of a stretch too.) They charge the fee because they can. As long as people continue to pay the fees, they'll continue to charge them.

Nothing in return? I bring this little piece of plastic with me to Florence. A shirt maker I've never met before agrees to send me some amazing custom linen shirts. I just give him the plastic. Meanwhile, the plastic people convert dollars to euros, mail be a statement and give me 20 days to pay with no interest. If the shirt guy fails to honor his promise, I pay nothing.

...and they give me something they call "miles" to help make sure that I sit in premuim cabins in my next trip to Florence.

For me, this is most definitely something in return for 3%.

If it works for you, that's great. But I have another piece of plastic that does all the things you describe in your first paragraph, plus saves me an amout of money worth twice the value of those miles. So, to me, I get a better value, and the bank doesn't get my money for nothing.

My bank - American Bank - refunds all ATM fees - domestic or international (up to $6/month).

www.pcbanker.com

1.75% interest on your checking and no fees whatsoever so long as you can maintain an average balance of $1000. If you decide to sign up, contact me for a referral - and we both get some $. I have been with them four years with no complaints and appreciate their good CS (no long phone hold times ever).

You're right. I called FirstUsa and was told Visa used to lay 1% into each transaction, to which First Usa added 2%. Visa now bills FirstUsa in bulk at the end of the month, so no Visa 1% fees are included with each transaction. Instead, FirstUsa charges the customer 3%.

I think if you get a card charging 1%, your improvement is what you would have paid (3%) compared to what you now pay (1%) which would be 2%. The improvement doesn't change with the value you assign to miles, only the cash you pay to get the miles, and that would be $20 for each $1,000 you charge in foriegn currency.

Also, while this is not the topic to refire the "miles valuation" debates, I'll just say I don't value miles at 1.5 cents, and if I did, I certainly wouldn't pay 1.5 cents each in cash to get them.

I assumed that the value of the miles is at least 1.5% of your charges, or 1.5 cents per mile. If you accept that (and I realize that you don't), the improvement of using the 1% card is 0.5% of your charges or less.

The improvement does change with the value you assign to miles. If those miles are worth 2 cents to you, you've made no improvement at all with a 1% exchange fee card (with no miles) vs. a 3% card with miles. When paying $20 for 1,000 miles, you've actually improved your situation if the miles are worth more than 2 cents per to you.