Now we have degenerated into a personal attack.

Enough.

We've beaten to death the subject of one particular offer for sale of information for $97.

I considered going back and deleting or editing some of more unfriendly and inappropriate posts, but decided to let them stand. Members will have to live by their words.

I also considered closing this thread. I'm not going to do that either. Yet.

There's fertile ground to continue discussing whether it's appropriate to profit from the information found here on Flyertalk. Hopefully we can do that without getting personal or nasty. Perhaps that means discussing it in the abstract for awhile, or at least without reference to the activities of members of this community, since so many folks are having a hard time doing that without getting personal.

Regards,
Gary
aka gleff
MilesBuzz and Delta moderator

Posting as a member, not a moderator, I'll say that I don't have a problem with profiting from the information found on Flyertalk.

Journalists 'profit' all the time with story ideas about miles and points, scanning these boards for subjects and for people who can offer commentary. That often puts Flyertalk in the news and grows our community, and it certainly benefits the readers of the ensuing articles - even if it sometimes accelerates an offer's demise (though it hasn't yet with CharterOne gift cards).

If someone here can bring information to an audience that wouldn't otherwise receive it -- because they don't know about Flyertalk... because they don't have the time or patience or expertise to work through the threads here... then they can have it translated for them, and that translation does have value.

Despite my admonition above not to deal with individual member sites, I'm going to reference two but try to do it without getting personal. One of the things I like about pgary's site is that when there's a personal benefit to him (such as a referral bonus) he's pretty upfront about it. A reader can judge for herself whether the information is somehow tainted because of it, or they can seek to complete an offer without providing the bonus to Gary. But his site is also of general benefit.

The other site that I'll mention is my own. I do have links on the page that will give me a referral bonus. Mostly I use them myself for my own bookings (it's rather convenient to be able to pick up $5 for each Orbitz booking I make, since I make alot). I don't push use of the links.

There are two exceptions currently on the front page of my website.

(1) when pgary posted in the SPAM forum that he received a check from Hits4Pay.com, I finally became interested in the site and signed up and mentioned having done so on my own website. The link I offered was my own referral link, but I disclose that.

(2) There is a 3000 mile signup bonus for new Mileage Plus accounts. I don't know about it through Flyertalk. The only way I know about it is from one of the affiliate marketing websites. United actually will pay me $3.50 for each new member who signs up under the promotion. And I know no way to do the 3000 mile signup (that doesn't appear to require a flight, let alone a flight that isn't in one of the cheapest booking classes) without doing it through this referral promotion. So I think I'm making folks better off by putting it online.

Looking back, when I posted the United promo, I did it very quickly (while in transit back from a far away land) and didn't mention that I get $3.50 for each completed signup. Perhaps my bad. I'm actually going to edit the entry now.

But the real way that I've profited from Flyertalk has been the community of course and the learning for my personal travel (and the travel of those I'm close to). At the same time, I've benefited materially -- I won a trip to Puerto Rico at the Freddies last year.... I won 60,000 Starwood points by naming the new Sheraton checkin kiosk. I don't think that was inappropriate profiteering....

And yet at the same time I have the same visceral reaction that most others do when I see eBay auctions offering to sell a million Qantas miles which really comes from buying InsideFlyer subscriptions, pocketing a Starwood bonus, opening a new account for the auction winner at the seller's address, transferring the SPG points into Qantas and then changing the account address...

And I'm not sure how to reconcile these reactions. So maybe someone will help square this circle.

How much work is your method? Can you quantify it? E.g. about 10 hours/month? How much "time per mile" are you spending -- they're only free if you don't value your time.

I agree, my time is valuable. Taking the cards to my full service bank a block away where I have an account takes me about 40 minutes to process 10 cards. They don't mind doing it for me. I bring 10 cards in twice a month.

The time ordering the cards + activating them + cashing them in = under 4 hours/month for 10,000 miles/month

To me, 10,000 miles are worth far more than 4 hours of my time...but that's me (I get 2 cents/mile value out of my miles).

So you'd be good with me lifting some of your FT posts (which in many cases contain great mileage earning information), creating my own website, and selling your work to unsuspecting buyers? Of course, I would include an intro clip about how I created it and I wouldn't mention your name. Maybe I'd alter enough words to make it look like my own, but it would be essentially your work. You would actually be fine with that?

Can't we separate an issue, in this case selling valuable information, from a specific instance?

To conclude that because you disagree with the way someone sold information one time, all information selling is wrong is a logical fallacy.

I don't think there is a moral problem with selling information.

I do disagree with the way information was sold in the above instance.

I will not say that information selling is wrong because I disagree with the way it was sold above. If I want to critic something, it will be the way the information was sold this time.

If you took information in my posts and put them up on the web for sale I'd be fine with it, as long as you offered to buy me a beer at an upcoming FT DO.

If the members of this site could not profit from it, the site would not exist. Be it a few miles, an upgrade, a more suitable program, etc. etc. etc.

^^