learningtime

Let's get the order count. Order numbers during the start of this thread and towards the end. I am sure it won't be tens of millions. That, and then you don't know the discounted rate of miles. AA gives away several times this amount of miles in promotional deals (such as double miles) every month.

Naysaysers abound no matter what deal we talk about. Go back and look at the C1 deal. That was so plain vanilla legitimate but people questioned and debated that to no end. Let's not even bring the expedia canada deal into picture but if you want, try to calculate how many $300 credits exepdia canada handed out to americans, europeans etc (clearly not the intended audience of the promotion) instead of taking it to court. In the expedia canada deal, the terms said "canada bookings only" - stronger case for expedia than AA/verizon have here. But what did "canada booking only" really mean - we did book through expedia canada. Let's assume 10,000 non-canada origination bookings (although I am sure there were more), that's 3000000 right there. Did they go to court?

I am not saying this will necessarily play out all positive and right from the get go. It might, it might take a fight, who knows. But why the attitude of "it just can't/won't/cannot possibly work". To a previous posters points, do airlines let you get away with changing a booking made in honest error? No, not without a fee. Why? Can they prove damages they would incur when there are seats available when you want to go? Not that I can think of. But those are the rules you sign up for when you "purchase" and then we are stuck. Same goes for them.

mreed911

I don't think any of us can know the scope given the breadth this deal got, the limited audience of those sites, and the anecdotal evidence that at least some people couldn't figure out how to order. There's probably also a subset that rather than clicking through AA E-Shopping went straight to Verizon's site and won't get anything.

Which still cost money. They're not sitting idle at their desks, so there's at the very least the opportunity cost at their salaried rate. And for things like this, in-house counsel often directs activities and contracts out the rest of the work that needs to be done on a specific case/issue to another firm for research, clerical, etc.

CVG_Kid

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Do unto others as you would have done to you. Still good advice today.

Give me a good deal to try your product and I'll snap it up. Pop up a mistake fare/product and I'll snap it up. Say it's an honest mistake that honoring will create an undue burden on your organization. Fair enough and I'll evaluate whether I want to do business with you in the future but I'm not in for all this legal nonsense.

Go hug your child. Make a chalk outline on the sidewalk and skip rocks with your adult wife till the neighbors point and laugh from their front porch. There are better ways to burn the brief wick we're all given.

CVG_Kid

One thing FT mega threads like this do show is the need for a backend overhaul of FT.

* Wiki's at the beginning of threads
* Ratings for individual messages so I can zip through 100 pages reading only the recommended **** posts or better

iluvthsgam

Would love to see some small business owners or people with responsibility for budgets etc. in companies on this thread and how they would feel if this happened to them on their watch. Bet you'd be singing a different tune.

Unless it is shown that this was intentionally done by AA/Verizon/Cartera in order to get a bunch of customers and their information - which at this point I highly doubt - I would be willing to bet that you will not get your 83k miles per purchase. Anyone want to wager?

If they refund your money and even let you keep the product you purchased how are you not made whole?

mreed911

Verizon Financials (from Wikipedia, linked to Verizon's annual report):

Revenue US$ 106.565 billion (2010)
Operating income US$ 14.645 billion (2010)
Net income US$ 10.217 billion (2010)
Total assets US$ 220.005 billion (2010)
Total equity US$ 86.912 billion (2010)

The company made 10 billion dollars in profit (on 100 billion in revenue, so 10% margin... nice!). Even if this cost them 100 million dollars to fix (which nobody has suggested it would), that's still only 1% of their net income, and .1% of their gross revenues. Very, very small money.

mreed911

As discussed earlier, the concept of "made whole" is a common law concept that doesn't have true application here. To be made whole, I'd have to receive what I paid for - the product and 83,000 AAdvantage miles.

Eryeal

You are absolutely correct - unless it is proven this was INTENTIONALLY done to mislead customers, intentionally done with no intention of fulfilling, etc, then it's not going to stand a chance.

There are so many examples. Let's say I list a pencil on Amazon.com for $1, and some other seller changes the description to say "also includes an ounce of pure gold!" .. and I ship the pencil, and the customer complains they didn't get their ounce of gold. I am under NO OBLIGATION to provide the gold - but I am under an obligation to refund their $1 they paid if the description did not match.

Those saying that even if they get a refund on the purchase price, that they still have a case, are just plain stupid and don't know what they are talking about.

This would fall in the category of any price mistake. And price mistakes are only liable for damages if it is shown it was intentionally done with fraudulent purpose. If not, then the most you can get out of it is a refund, unless they are gracious and give more miles, etc.

udaykiran82

hey got my order delivered.. it is only 15$ LOL...so should i wait for a mail stating that u can return for refund and no stocking fee..

mreed911

This is why businesses (should) carry Errors & Omissions Insurance.

Eryeal

That's the dumbest correlation I've read. First, you don't compare it to income, you compare it to PROFIT. Second - money is money, and just because it is from a large corporate does not make it any different than it coming from your local mom and pop hardware store. One should never have prejudice because a company is "large". Money is money. Don't be stupid.

gfowler-ord-1k

Stress Stage 2
Emphasis mine
It's lunch time in PHX

ibrick

Business owner right here
First:
Once this was known I would have frozen all shipments (They did not do this)
I would have takin all ordering off-line untill this was repaired (They did not do this either)
After all was frozen I then would have found the estimated cost of damage to fulfill all agreements
Then I would have contacted my insurance company

mreed911

Look at how the numbers are presented. That *is* their profit (link to definition of Net Income on Investopedia). Operating income is listed... expenses are deducted... and net income is left.

10 million to a 100,000/year business is huge. 10 million to a 100 billion a year business making profits of 10 billion is, well, 1% of their profits. Sizable, but not huge.

Before you call someone stupid, make sure you actually know what you're talking about.

DBCme

While you make a good point, I doubt you have conducted a survey among "everyone here" on whether it was a legitimate offer.