JIM_Travel

I still haven't been told .... is Delta aware of this backlash or oblivious? Do they not care or are they working on fixing the problem?

Happy

The issues have been going on for MONTHS, and were going progressively downhill especially after the final merger with NW when people could no longer use NW engine to bypass DL with their miles from NW.

You draw your own conclusion if DL is aware of this or not, and whether they do not care or they are actually working on resolving the problems based on the posts on this thread started by you among other threads on related topics.

I dont believe anyone can "tell" you what exactly is in DL's mind (or rather, its management's mind).

Hint:

The 3-tier award system was formally in effect Oct 1 2009 after a long expectation of its introduction. Now we are in July 2010.

It is not that difficult to deduce the situation, for the majority of folks trying to use their miles in some basic ways.

I think jpdx has given an EXCELLENT write-up on the program and how it would work for certain situations. If you believe the criteria depicted in jpdx's post apply to you, then by all means, DL's SkyMiles would work for you. Else, you may want to reconsider. Simple choice.

JIM_Travel

I think this thread started by me is actually a really good one for new folks wanting to understand the disdain folks have for DL and their mileage program.

The point of my question was has anyone who loathes DL (the way many people seem to here do) actually written an email to DL management and gotten a response of any sort re: the obvious issues with the mileage program.

I do disagree that the choice is simple. Wrong word. Otherwise, this type of forum would need not exist. What is the norm today could easily be turned 180 degrees tomorrow. Who is to say AA or UA or any other airline program won't go down the tubes and/or DL announces a major upgrade to its program tomorrow. I think instead the proper phrasing should be informed based on the data at hand where these accounts are a piece of that data.

mosu84

I think Happy is just frustrated because this exact thread seems to be created at least once a month on this board. On the SkyMiles board, there's one of these threads almost daily. In a few days, this thread will drift to the 2nd page and then someone new will come in and create this exact thread again.

Delta is almost certainly aware of the problem. Ignoring for a second that Delta employees post on the SkyMiles board, Delta surely knows what its competitors' frequent flyer programs offer compared to its own. I'm not really sure what an email would accomplish. The only thing that would really cause Delta to change would be a mass exodus of its frequent flyers, but I just don't see that happening in the immediate future.

Happy

Yup. If anyone would use a search function first before starting a new thread, we would have a lot less repetitive questions / redundant threads on FT...

DL runs a business, doesn't it? It would be unimaginable that a business does not know customers complaints for such long period. The reason why DL would not change / improve its program is precisely what you allude to - there is no exodus of its most loyal frequent flyers.

DL elites would not leave the program because the domestic products are good and the upgrades for elites are excellent, plus much more award inventories open to top elites. If one thinks one's travel pattern / credit card spending / ability to unearth exceptional miles earning opportunities, etc etc would propel one to DL elite, then it is really a no brainer choice to go with DL and achieve the top elite status as soon as possible. Else, it makes sense to look at other programs and dont sweat with the 10, 20K DL miles sitting in the accounts. It would be wishful thinking that DL program would make a 180 degree change in any foreseeable future.

I honestly think jpdx's post is an excellent signpost to help anyone who needs to make a decision whether to make DL his main program. mooper's multiple posts also give good info about what work with the program. If these posts are still considered not having enough info to help a person to make a choice, then may be flipping a coin would do it.

JIM_Travel

Yeah, but mine has the best title. And it still must be a fresh topic given the number of replies and views.

Supersonic Swinger

Given the reluctance of mods to make any one of them stickies, we should just keep bumping this thread with additional examples of the Peso-like nature of Skypesos.

Here's another one:

One-way Skypesos awards price out at the same mileage requirement as a round-trip. Want a one-way domestic even when low-tier is available? 25,000.

Other airlines will ask for 12,500 - if my AAdvantage statement shows 12,000, it even tells me I'm 500 miles away from my next award level.

gpscuba2000

I recently sent an email complaining about the lack of award seats (I have 600,000 miles and would like to get more than one trip out of them). I also mentioned the Wall Street Journal article that pointed out that Delta was at the bottom when it came to award redemption. What I find funny is the part where they mention using their international partners (Note: The web site doesn't show the partner airlines) Here is the response:

Dear Mr. Scuba,

Thank you for contacting us through delta.com.

We sincerely regret your disappointment with our Skymiles award
availability program. We treat any report of customer dissatisfaction
very seriously and regret your disappointment with our program. The
airline industry is very competitive, and the goodwill of our customers
is important to the lasting success of our company.

As you may know, our schedules load 331 days out, and there is no way to
predict when or if Award Seat inventory will be made available.
Fluctuations in passenger demand, seasonal trends, peak travel times and
other factors determine if and when Award Seats will be offered, and if
so, how many. As a result, low or medium tier Award Seats may not be
available on all flights.

Award Travel availability depends on the flight, the date of travel, the
expected demand for the flight, the season, the destination, and various
other factors. As you read in the Wall Street Journal article, we offer
multiple levels of awards, with many markets offering last seat
availability, to make it easier for our SkyMiles members to use miles on
the flights they prefer. Delta also has more than 20 worldwide airline
partners. You can redeem your miles for Award seats on partner airlines,
and on other members of the SkyTeam alliance.

Thank you for taking the time to offer us your feedback. Delta is
continually seeking ways to bring about improvements and enhancements to
the SkyMiles program. Your comments will help us identify and improve
the programs you value most and will help shape the programs we develop
in the future.

As a Medallion member, you are an integral part of our customer base and
we are always interested in your feedback. Thank you for taking the
time to write. We deeply value your business.

Sincerely,


Medallion Desk

Carolinian

Europe is even more glaring. I can get direct OW intra-Europe tickets easily on BMI and its *A partners for either 4,500 miles or 6,000 miles depending on the city pairs. The same OW ticket on DL would be 25,000 miles and probably have higher fees than BMI.

My BMI miles are like gold while my former NW, now DL, miles are more like fool's gold.

Carolinian

If there was a legal way to do it (and maybe since Mooper is a big shareholder of DL he can find a way), I would happily trade him 2 DL miles for every 1 AA, CO, or UA mile he could send my way. And as to BMI miles, I would make that 3 for 1.

mooper

Owning shares won't help that cause, but if you wanted to be in the same position temporarily, you could take a big long position, pair with some protective put options, and sit on it for a week while figuring things out. You'd lose only the time value premium and transaction + interest costs while you strike your deal

Seriously though... I'll bet there are many on CC who would accept that offer readily. Snag some AA miles via the 35% bonus offer and some card bonuses (35K miles with no fee is floating around right now) and then spin them into twice as many DL miles that can be easily used for 2+ CPM trips, even better when last minute, within the contiguous 48 states. Awesome!

yyliu88

Delta miles are hard to use, but it's not that bad after my few months study and booking with their miles.

In order to make their miles working, you need

1 Very familiar with delta award system/routing and all their partners and how to book them

2 a helpful agent because certain partners like MU, MH, CI require special procedures

To get a helpful agent, you need either be Plainum or diamond and keep calling until u find call center in Chrisom, MN or you can speak Chinese, so dial to Delta Asia call center in Singapore. Almost all of them are well trained.

If you get call center in SLC or CVG, then good luck, maybe 1 out of 100 knows how to book partners.

iahphx

The shortcomings of the Skymiles program are well-documented on Flyertalk at this point, and I generally share the views expressed here by some that constantly revisiting these shortcomings is tedious.

That said this tedium is necessary if we are to have any hope of DL "reforming" the program. I do think the constant cry from Flyertalk that the Skymiles program REALLY SUCKS will eventually filter down to the mainstream media and some positive change will come. At least, that's my hope, because Skymiles will otherwise have very little value to me. And I'm currently a Platinum Medallion member.

One problem with Skymiles that perhaps gets less attention than it should is their attrocious record of crediting (or, more accurately, not crediting) bonus and non-flight miles to member accounts. I've routinely had to bug DL for months to get my bonus miles, and I know many other people have had similar experiences.

Heck, Skymiles can't even SELL their miles efficiently. You may be familiar with the May "Daily Getaways" promo run by the new USA tourism bureau. Lots of travel companies sold loyalty miles (I bought hundreds of thousands), and I've heard of no complaints -- except for DL. The crazy folks who actually paid $350 for 25,000 Skypesos can't even get DL to issue the miles they paid for. Most of the other travel companies got the miles/points credited within a couple days, and some of these programs are so small that they're probably run out of a couple cubicles. Whatever business "reason" DL might have for being stingy with award seats certainly doesn't apply to their lackluster handling of basic bookkeeping requirements. The Skypeso program is both stingy AND badly administered.

As far as the "stinginess" goes, my personal experience with redeeming my mileage as a Medallion member is that their availability for DL flights is awful across the board. I don't care if you want first class or coach, int'l or domestic. It's a nightmare finding seats compared to my experience with Oneworld and Star Alliance airlines. I recently documented my experience trying to book the near-impossible: a family trip to Hawaii on "low" (aka standard) award availability:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...low-award.html

I've spent many hours "strategizing" this redemption because I was sick and tired of burning my valuable Star and Oneworld miles because I could never redeem my Skypesos. And I'm still not done, because I still can't fly out of my hometown airport because of the complete unavailability of award seats. Had I wanted to redeem my Star or Oneworld miles, the whole booking process would have taken less than 10 minutes, and I would have had several choices. So perhaps "Skypeso" is too kind. Sky-torture, perhaps?

wbl-mn-flyer

This part is easy.

Set your wayback machine to November 2009.

I was able to book FIVE tickets on the same flights, MSP-HNL. I had to stop in Portland on the way out, and the return routing was via Atlanta. (in the Northwest days, they would not think of screwing us this way - the non-stop MSP-HNL was easily booked for many years in a row)

Before returning, we paid a change fee of $150 per person to get direct non-stop HNL-MSP routing instead of the stupid Atlanta diversion.

A great way to burn 200,000 points - the bulk of my account at that time.

Doing this now? Good luck.

Skypesos is being too generous. Zimbabwe Flyer Points is the right term.

JFKSFOLAX_friend

Ummm....okay.