Jeeves

I used to credit my DL flights to DL, before they became a partner of AS. Each family member had built up around 50K in their DL accounts. We were able to book 4 coach award tickets to Paris on AF at 50K each for travel in April 2009. We were able to pick our ideal dates and were able to empty out 3 of our accounts. I guess we got lucky with our timing.

I've got about 35K left with Delta. Will probably continue crediting rental cars to DL until I get up to 40K, then I will cash out for a mid level domestic ticket and then be done.

mooper

Gary,

You clearly know the game and have experience redeeming millions of Skymiles, too. Everything you said makes sense and appears accurate, in the context of your area of focus. I presume that you consider "high value awards" to be primarily the world of international premium cabin award travel - correct? If so, your statements hold true for you, and anyone in your redemption niche.

However, let's assume you are a Diamond Medallion who knows how to work around the calendar bug that hides Medallion inventory and you are redeeming 45 of those 50 million miles wholly within the 48 contiguous states. I understand that may not be your interest and that much higher CPM opportunities are found with premium cabin international travel, but what if your world of logical redemptions was limited as posited above? Would you still claim that miles of other airlines, especially considering they are much more expensive to acquire (in general, but especially via credit card spending), would hold more appeal within this new restricted universe?

Several of us are "power users" (I have earned around 20 million miles all-time, have redeemed about 5 million), but because of our employee, personal, and family travel dictates that international travel is not as desirable, we opt for 2+ CPM domestic redemptions over 4+ CPM international ones. While I might seek the occasional discretionary overseas luxury trip, I find much more use in moving employees and family around the country for trips I would otherwise *need* to pay for. My situation may not be common in terms of volume, but my focus on the 48 states is most typical.

Herein lies the issue. When I defend Skymiles as being a superb program, including versus its peers, I am careful to specify the context of my universe of redemption and status. When you and others proclaim that Skymiles are less appealing/valuable, you should do the same. *You* pretty much did (you said "high value awards" and implied international), but the majority of posters do not. Most commonly, a Skymiles detractor will shout about how they are useless, how they can't find low/saver availability, and how the perks of the program are sub-par, but they *fail to stipulate they are focused on international travel*. It is absurd to claim that Delta miles, which may be acquired readily at prices far below other airlines (as FFI described) and used just as easily within the 48 states, are worth less *in general*. The domestic/international distinction makes or breaks the perception of the program and its value and simply cannot be left understated.

techboyds

Check post #26 of this thread.

mooper

Bingo, though I'd qualify that it might not be the vast majority of FTers that are looking for international premium awards... its probably just that the vast majority of frequent posters (i.e., the most hardcore FTers) are. The average FTer is more hardcore than the average flier, and an active FTer who posts about this issue is in an even more selective group (the one to which I think you are referring). Their targeted complaints are legit... even using jpdx's advice, there are many shortcomings with Delta's *international* award availability, a buggy calendar, and status perks that fall short of other programs for *international* travel. However, when they generalize these targeted complaints to extend to the domestic perks and award availability, they are wrong. Even some widely published research reports that compared airline rewards programs missed the mark by failing to make the necessary distinctions.

Travelomania

Thanks very much ^ ... must have skipped this crucial post inadvertently ..

Travelomania

In my situation - frequently departing from PDX - DL is the only airline that can get me mostly very conveniently across various ponds ... whether it's eastbound, westbound or sometimes south ..

Travelomania

So I take it then that you're actually predicting WW3 ? ..

techboyds

No problem. It's easy to miss things in a thread this long.

jbcarioca

Just adding to the general state of confusion. I have roughly 20mm lifetime miles and I've redeemed just about every category of international award on quite a few airlines, although never for domestic US travel.

The SM program is neither better nor worse than several others AFAIK, but much better than most non-US programs that charge lots of fees. Of course DL does often, but not always, charge a non-US origination fee that I've been charged fro by no other carrier.

The only major beef I have with SM is not the value or accessibility of awards. It is the lucridiously poor ST website and RTW booking/information system. Once you learn the impossibly complex ropes the RTW works very well also, even though I find I must explain the availability and system to the DL agents. Thank heavens for expertflyer!

The people who complain about international award pricing or availability are generally not calculating the cost of alternatives, or the wealth of points earning power available to DL elites. There have been a few threads about that and people have disagreed with my calculations usually because they would never actually purchase an international premium ticket. I will and do.

For me the SM program works OK. The technology should be embarrassing to DL and they have nothing that is "best in class". However the program works.

Travelomania

No sucedi� ... a much better outcome than this ... Hup Holland Hup ..

mahasamatman

As stated here (bolding is mine)...
For extremely small values of 3...

gleff

1. AA and US have better domestic availability than DL. Obviously Alaska does, but DL miles can be redeemed on Alaska. I wouldn't necessarily make the same overarching claim about UA and CO domestic award availability. That's a claim about airline metal, not programs, because of course UA and CO miles can be redeemed on US.

2. This hypothetical Delta Diamond redeeming within the mainland US should probably put their credit card spend on a cashback card and buy tickets.

3. A Delta Diamond would be an AA EXP, they'd find better availability at AA domestically.

4. US Airways miles are even easier to acquire cheaply than DL miles. And not just from last fall's TrackItBack deal, or from buying/gifting miles, just take a look at the current promo that nets me > 4700 miles on a 3-day Avis rental or the perpetual 50% bonuses on transferring hotel points. And don't forget that AA has even more partner opportunities than Delta does, even if they don't always have more generous bonuses.

gleff

If you're talking about a lifetime of experience you might think that Delta was no worse than others, because (1) the real slide in Delta has predominantly come over the last couple of years and (2) you might have missed the improvements in other programs like Continental and Aeroplan.

I think many of the posts in this thread would counter that conclusion, actually.

gleff

See for instance http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/13017590-post2.html and http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...-skymiles.html

mooper

1) Fair point, but I'd qualify it by pointing out that AA/US domestic networks are more limited. I'm not necessarily saying Delta stands above the rest in terms of 48-state award inventory; I'm just trying to debunk the claim that Skymiles are far less valuable in that arena. They're in the mix.

2) At times, maybe, but when you have the opportunity to earn 4 MPD plus .5 MQM by stacking a bonus and a promo, the card spending is more lucrative.

3) See point 1.

4) No doubt, US is up there with DL for cheap earning opportunities, such as the 50% transfer bonus going on right now (DL just completed their own). I have 6 million US miles, about 75% acquired through various promos. I'm not sure I'd agree that US has superior opportunities overall, however. You mention the lucrative US car rental opportunity, but remember, Delta just warpped one up whereby you could snag 7500 SM for a 2-day rental by stacking a 5000 mile offer with a 50% promo. As far as card spending, the US-branded cards don't offer promos nearly as aggressive. I'm earning 4 MPD and .5 MQM on top right now via Delta Amex. Last year, there was a similar opportunity. Flight promos are often better, too. Last year, stacking a card promo, a threshold bonus, a status bonus, and flight promo, I was snagging 4 RDM on flown miles as well.