Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Mileage Run Deals > Mileage Run Discussion
Reload this Page >

[PREM FARE GONE] UA: NCL-EWR 600 DKK (mistaken fare) DOT ruled; see wiki for link

Community
Wiki Posts
Search
Old Feb 11, 2015, 11:49 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: drewguy
If you've never gone through this process read this before posting!
Note: Please consider that with high probability, United is monitoring this thread, so please pay attention on what you post!

DOT Investigation UpdatesNews Media Updates:

-------

According to USA Today, Ben Mutzabaugh:
United is voiding the bookings of several thousand individuals who were attempting to take advantage of an error a third-party software provider made when it applied an incorrect currency exchange rate, despite United having properly filed its fares. Most of these bookings were for travel originating in the United Kingdom, and the level of bookings made with Danish Kroner as the local currency was significantly higher than normal during the limited period that customers made these bookings.
Note that United has also accidentally cancelled "legitimate" tickets paid for in USD, purchased in USD from LHR... Please check your other tickets if purchased today to ensure they were not unilaterally cancelled.

However, there is no chance at all that you can have your tickets re-instated if you complain to DOT on the basis of DOT rule § 399.88:
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.

(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
Form for filing DOT complaint. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.

Link to PDF of enforcement bodies for European customers affected. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.


Tips for DOT Complaint:
  • File on DOT for every ticket number affected.
  • If you have one reservation with four people traveling (four tickets) file 4 DOT complaints, one per ticket.
  • If you have separate reservations, file a DOT complaint for each.
  • The DOT complaint website may take several minutes to load, depending on demand.
  • When you go to upload a file, be careful as it will reset all your radio buttons. So, if you want a copy of the complaint, make sure you double check that "Yes" is still selected before submitting, especially if you upload a file.

Template For Complaint:
United has unilaterally cancelled my ticket without my consent.

Facts:
1. The ticket was ticketed (had a ticket number).
2. I received a confirmation number, ticket number, and emails stating both
3. The ticket was paid for and my credit card charged.

United must reinstate the ticket within its original cabin. This trip is for travel TO the United States.

At no time during the booking process was any other fare than the Danish Krone equivalent displayed. As a reasonable, prudent consumer, I believed I was paying the price displayed to me on the website. United never sent or displayed the equivalent fare in any other currency.

Trip Details
Ticket #: 016XXXXXXXXXX
PNR: XXXXXX
Routing: LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL

Attachments: Attached is a document showing the ticket, routing, and providing proof that the reservation was ticketed.

Filename: Cancelled - UA Reservation - LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL - XXXXXX - 016XXXXXXXXXX.pdf

+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant Law |
| http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88 |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.

(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.

+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant FAQ |
| http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/EAPP_2_FAQ.pdf |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?

Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a “mistake.”
-----
Tips for retrieving your ticket number:
  1. paste(right click copy link location first) following link into your web browser
  2. change XXXXXX next to COPNR= for your reservation number and LASTNAME next to LN= for you SURNAME
  3. go to the webpage address you have just created

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...NRCD=2/11/2015


Originally Posted by MatthewLAX
Originally Posted by MatthewLAX View Post
R E L A X

Breathe deep.

Congrats on all who got in.

Now comes the fun part.

1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically checks how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire.

2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. Novices contact source to change seats or inquire about upgrades, Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.

3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over paper ticket delivery - Novices Frantically check otheFedEx website every few hours, constant monitoring of driveway for FedEx truck. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax.

4. Glee and happiness - Paper tickets in hand, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.

5. Stress Stage 2 - Rumors of fare not being honored, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial committments to their trip. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and is patient.

6. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week to 10 days after mistake fare is published. Confirmed information from the source as to whether or not tickets will be honored.

7a. Pure Joy (Icelandair style- Fare is Honored) - Lots of happy people, FT threads on shared information regarding hotels, restaurants, tours, etc. Jealousy from others sets in. First "FT guinea pigs" embark, post confirmation threads that all is ok.


7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.

8a Success (Honored) - Trip Report thread becomes very active


Freedom of Information Act Request
File #2015-147, Office of the Secretary of Transportation - Receipt acknowledged 3/13/15

http://www.dot.gov/individuals/foia/office-secretary-foia-information

Relevant excerpt from my request on 2/24/15. There no need for multiple requests for the same thing, though feel free to request more or different information obviously. I'll post any updates as I get them.

"Under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S. C. subsection 552, I am requesting access to any and all records of correspondence, including electronic, between anyone working for, or on the behalf of, United Airlines and its subsidiaries, and with anyone working for, or on the behalf of, the Department of Transportation; specifically this would include only the date range beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015.

In addition, I am requesting access to any and all internal records and correspondence in relation to coming to the decision made on February 23rd, 2015 regarding the Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings Determination Regarding United Airlines Mistaken Fare, with the exception of any of the consumer submitted complaints via phone, email, website, or letter. Specifically, this would be any records beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015."
Print Wikipost

[PREM FARE GONE] UA: NCL-EWR 600 DKK (mistaken fare) DOT ruled; see wiki for link

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Feb 13, 2015, 7:02 pm
  #3661  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: LHR
Programs: M&M,HH Gold,Accor Plat.,Priority Club Plat. Ambassador,Club Carlson Gold,Marriott Gold,GHA Plat.
Posts: 1,627
Originally Posted by miikkak
DOT didn't obligate AZ to honour PROMOJP tickets because Japanese website is targeted to Japanese consumers (DOT decided that the AZ case was out of jurisdiction). However this case is different as United is US-based airline.
wrong assumption! the DOT took jurisdiction for those flights that involved trip from/to/via US!

anyway, i think that the DOT will find a sort of trick (interpretation )just to allow UA not to honor its fare; a sort of the rules exists and it's applied also this time, as always...but UA it's not obliged to honor the fare because...bla bla bla...
and this will create a heavy precedent.

Last edited by Paul4Travel; Feb 13, 2015 at 7:13 pm
Paul4Travel is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2015, 7:06 pm
  #3662  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by tom911
Welcome to FlyerTalk There is no requirement for members to share their personal information here.
That particular member is trying to lend an air of authority to his claims by listing his purported resume. If he's willing to open the door to his credentials, it seems to me that he should feel no shame in sharing his name with us.
ap213 is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2015, 7:08 pm
  #3663  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 519
Never mind

Last edited by eloraculo; Feb 13, 2015 at 7:11 pm Reason: Nevermind
eloraculo is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2015, 7:11 pm
  #3664  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: LHR
Programs: M&M,HH Gold,Accor Plat.,Priority Club Plat. Ambassador,Club Carlson Gold,Marriott Gold,GHA Plat.
Posts: 1,627
what's very strange to me is:
1) UA is saving a third party company that is responsible for the mistake
2) this third company should have a professional insurance
3) UA should have an insurance
4) what makes me really confused is: when the tickets stock are loaded in the IT system, usually many airlines have a software that makes a sort of double check the rate and in particular the final revenue. how has been possible that nobody (software/human) did not realize that the revenues would have been more than halved ?

We're talking about an incredible, unexplainable and unacceptable negligence.

Last edited by Paul4Travel; Feb 13, 2015 at 7:19 pm
Paul4Travel is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2015, 7:46 pm
  #3665  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: UA-1K, MM, Hilton-Diamond, Marriott-Titanium
Posts: 4,433
Hey, what's going on. This thread was not on the top when I just checked and it's been 30 minutes between posts. Come on slackers, let's keep this thread on top
cruisr is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2015, 7:53 pm
  #3666  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068
Originally Posted by Paul4Travel
4) what makes me really confused is: when the tickets stock are loaded in the IT system, usually many airlines have a software that makes a sort of double check the rate and in particular the final revenue. how has been possible that nobody (software/human) did not realize that the revenues would have been more than halved ?
[/I]
We're talking about an incredible, unexplainable and unacceptable negligence.
Do you realize who we're dealing with here?

United Continental Holdings has probably the worst IT of any large carrier.

As a recent example, I checked a bag the other day, and my claim check said the date and time of the bag check was one day in the future, at that same time.

Their IT seriously doesn't work.
channa is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2015, 8:20 pm
  #3667  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: NYC, LON
Programs: *
Posts: 2,774
Originally Posted by hellosweets
Being on my mileage run today Krk-txl-muc-iad-iah iah-bog bog-ewr-txl-Krk for 400$ ab + ua
Wow - that is one wicked run!
ani90 is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2015, 9:12 pm
  #3668  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: MCO
Programs: AA EXP, United PS, Hyatt Explorist, Marriott Titanium, Wyndham Gold, Club Carlson Gold, Amtrak
Posts: 1,254
Originally Posted by Jayda James M Long
Say the DOT makes United honor the tickets, but does not do this until mid march.

All the people who booked for say Feb/March would get a future flight credit ? Or would they simply be missed off ?

Seems an even stranger case in that matter. Because I'm sure united would honor the ticket....after the travel date had passed. And then say how about a travel credit for your $74 bucks you paid.
If the DOT adheres to regulation and upholds these tickets, United should be forced to pay the maximum fine for all itineraries that would have been flown prior to the ruling. United has broken the law by canceling these tickets and I hope will be held accountable.

My first itinerary is August 4, so the DOT can take whatever time it needs so long as they uphold the law. I know it is selfish, but those whose tickets were canceled and could not be used prior to a ruling will be very generously compensated or UA should be forced to pay a monumental fine.
DeltaWings is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2015, 9:59 pm
  #3669  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: EUG BKK
Programs: Zero Status Nexus
Posts: 432
Originally Posted by channa
Do you realize who we're dealing with here?

United Continental Holdings has probably the worst IT of any large carrier.

As a recent example, I checked a bag the other day, and my claim check said the date and time of the bag check was one day in the future, at that same time.

Their IT seriously doesn't work.
United should trim CEO Jeff's salary and use a portion of the money spent on advertising to upgrade their IT and software. Its just as much as UAs fault for an inadequate computer system as the consumer booking these luxurious flights. United could have prevented this situation.

Last edited by JetSetDave; Feb 13, 2015 at 10:05 pm
JetSetDave is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2015, 10:20 pm
  #3670  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
Originally Posted by dera
United.

Whoever, I think it was "Deltahater", said I was lost with reality because I contacted United first. Well, eat your shorts.

I'm halfway there now.
Yup, it was me. And I stand by my opinion. If you get your tickets reinstated, then we can talk. Until then, I like my shorts just the way they are.
Deltahater is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2015, 10:42 pm
  #3671  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
Originally Posted by teahan
Some people were asking about the number of tickets sold.

I have a ticket issued at 7:15 Central ending with 07XXX and one issued at 08:45 Central ending with 23XXX. That's 14000 tickets in those 1.5hrs.
UA.com generally produces $1MM in revenue per hour. If the average ticket is $400, then UA.com sells 2,500 tickets per hour normally. That is not including the tickets sold via the phone or travel agencies.
UA.com accounts for 50% of UA's sales. Therefore, UA sells roughly 5,000 tickets per hour.
If your calculation is correct, than normal tickets during that time account for 7,500 tickets and the Great Dane tickets account for 6,500
Deltahater is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2015, 10:57 pm
  #3672  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
USDOT update:

United Airlines mistaken fare

The Department of Transportation is aware of an issue involving mistaken fares on United Airlines’ Danish-facing website. The Department's Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings has begun looking into this matter, including speaking to United and reviewing consumer complaints. That Office will gather all the relevant facts before making a determination as to whether United is or is not required to honor the mistaken fares.

Updated: Thursday, February 12, 2015
Deltahater is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2015, 10:59 pm
  #3673  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,265
Guys, if anybody is supposed to be eating his shorts, IMHO that would be someone called Jeff...

From a strictly legal point of view, Dera is right. If you want to claim default, you would want to notify this to the counterparty in default. Regarding the current DoT-procedure, this is not necessary. For other purposes, it would be essential. (I'm not necessarily suggesting to lawyer up, btw!)

However, I am not sure if Dera has been contacting UA as a first step towards a claim regarding default (as in formal notification). I suppose this has been done in a way to try to convince UA on a short term regarding an individual case. From that point of view I'm afraid that Deltahater is absolutely right to assume that this will not generate much effect. Dera can suppose to be halfway there; IMHO UA is just buying some time and will keep you on hold.

If Dera has a spike, one that could easily harm UA's defence towards DoT, UA would be very stupid to at least not give the impression about any goodwill in perhaps honoring the ticket.

@Dera, you even mentioned not to be able to tell much. IMHO that says it all. Did you ever consider that UA wants you not to tell much? Perhaps especially not when filing a DoT-claim ?
Epicura is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2015, 11:02 pm
  #3674  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Berkeley, CA USA
Programs: Piggly Wiggly "Shop the Pig!" Preferred Shopper
Posts: 57,084
As one of the many FlyTalkers who had a blast in Iceland in 2003 for RT airfare of around US$62, I say to all of those who got in on this...

Good luck!

I'm rooting for you all. May your tickets be honored, and may you have some FT mini-dos in many places.
dhuey is offline  
Old Feb 13, 2015, 11:24 pm
  #3675  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Programs: UA PP, AA, DL, BA, CX, SPG, HHonors
Posts: 2,002
Thumbs up

Originally Posted by dhuey
As one of the many FlyTalkers who had a blast in Iceland in 2003 for RT airfare of around US$62, I say to all of those who got in on this...

Good luck!

I'm rooting for you all. May your tickets be honored, and may you have some FT mini-dos in many places.
Thank you!! We need more positive posters like u !!
787fan is offline  


Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.