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[PREM FARE GONE] UA: NCL-EWR 600 DKK (mistaken fare) DOT ruled; see wiki for link

Old Feb 11, 15, 11:49 am
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DOT Investigation UpdatesNews Media Updates:

-------

According to USA Today, Ben Mutzabaugh:
United is voiding the bookings of several thousand individuals who were attempting to take advantage of an error a third-party software provider made when it applied an incorrect currency exchange rate, despite United having properly filed its fares. Most of these bookings were for travel originating in the United Kingdom, and the level of bookings made with Danish Kroner as the local currency was significantly higher than normal during the limited period that customers made these bookings.
Note that United has also accidentally cancelled "legitimate" tickets paid for in USD, purchased in USD from LHR... Please check your other tickets if purchased today to ensure they were not unilaterally cancelled.

However, there is no chance at all that you can have your tickets re-instated if you complain to DOT on the basis of DOT rule 399.88:
399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.

(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
Form for filing DOT complaint. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.

Link to PDF of enforcement bodies for European customers affected. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.


Tips for DOT Complaint:
  • File on DOT for every ticket number affected.
  • If you have one reservation with four people traveling (four tickets) file 4 DOT complaints, one per ticket.
  • If you have separate reservations, file a DOT complaint for each.
  • The DOT complaint website may take several minutes to load, depending on demand.
  • When you go to upload a file, be careful as it will reset all your radio buttons. So, if you want a copy of the complaint, make sure you double check that "Yes" is still selected before submitting, especially if you upload a file.

Template For Complaint:
United has unilaterally cancelled my ticket without my consent.

Facts:
1. The ticket was ticketed (had a ticket number).
2. I received a confirmation number, ticket number, and emails stating both
3. The ticket was paid for and my credit card charged.

United must reinstate the ticket within its original cabin. This trip is for travel TO the United States.

At no time during the booking process was any other fare than the Danish Krone equivalent displayed. As a reasonable, prudent consumer, I believed I was paying the price displayed to me on the website. United never sent or displayed the equivalent fare in any other currency.

Trip Details
Ticket #: 016XXXXXXXXXX
PNR: XXXXXX
Routing: LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL

Attachments: Attached is a document showing the ticket, routing, and providing proof that the reservation was ticketed.

Filename: Cancelled - UA Reservation - LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL - XXXXXX - 016XXXXXXXXXX.pdf

+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant Law |
| http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88 |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.

(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.

+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant FAQ |
| http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/EAPP_2_FAQ.pdf |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?

Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a mistake.
-----
Tips for retrieving your ticket number:
  1. paste(right click copy link location first) following link into your web browser
  2. change XXXXXX next to COPNR= for your reservation number and LASTNAME next to LN= for you SURNAME
  3. go to the webpage address you have just created

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...NRCD=2/11/2015


Originally Posted by MatthewLAX
Originally Posted by MatthewLAX View Post
R E L A X

Breathe deep.

Congrats on all who got in.

Now comes the fun part.

1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically checks how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire.

2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. Novices contact source to change seats or inquire about upgrades, Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.

3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over paper ticket delivery - Novices Frantically check otheFedEx website every few hours, constant monitoring of driveway for FedEx truck. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax.

4. Glee and happiness - Paper tickets in hand, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.

5. Stress Stage 2 - Rumors of fare not being honored, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial committments to their trip. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and is patient.

6. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week to 10 days after mistake fare is published. Confirmed information from the source as to whether or not tickets will be honored.

7a. Pure Joy (Icelandair style- Fare is Honored) - Lots of happy people, FT threads on shared information regarding hotels, restaurants, tours, etc. Jealousy from others sets in. First "FT guinea pigs" embark, post confirmation threads that all is ok.


7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.

8a Success (Honored) - Trip Report thread becomes very active


Freedom of Information Act Request
File #2015-147, Office of the Secretary of Transportation - Receipt acknowledged 3/13/15

http://www.dot.gov/individuals/foia/office-secretary-foia-information

Relevant excerpt from my request on 2/24/15. There no need for multiple requests for the same thing, though feel free to request more or different information obviously. I'll post any updates as I get them.

"Under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S. C. subsection 552, I am requesting access to any and all records of correspondence, including electronic, between anyone working for, or on the behalf of, United Airlines and its subsidiaries, and with anyone working for, or on the behalf of, the Department of Transportation; specifically this would include only the date range beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015.

In addition, I am requesting access to any and all internal records and correspondence in relation to coming to the decision made on February 23rd, 2015 regarding the Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings Determination Regarding United Airlines Mistaken Fare, with the exception of any of the consumer submitted complaints via phone, email, website, or letter. Specifically, this would be any records beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015."
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[PREM FARE GONE] UA: NCL-EWR 600 DKK (mistaken fare) DOT ruled; see wiki for link

Old Feb 14, 15, 3:26 am
  #3691  
 
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I havent looked at this topic for 12 hours; can somebody give me some quick updates if there are any? Thanks.
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Old Feb 14, 15, 3:31 am
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Originally Posted by Granite64
I havent looked at this topic for 12 hours; can somebody give me some quick updates if there are any? Thanks.
You only missed about two pages, or 43 posts to be exact. How about skipping through them, if you're really interested...
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Old Feb 14, 15, 3:57 am
  #3693  
 
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As a data point, I was denied boarding at Heathrow about 2 hours ago. I D given the party line about a third party error. Ah well. It was worth a shot.
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Old Feb 14, 15, 4:07 am
  #3694  
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Originally Posted by lewinr
It is very likely that United's contract with the third party and even their own insurance company obligates United to do as much as possible to minimize any loss before making a claim. So that is what United are doing. Otherwise they will give the third party and/or their insurance company grounds to reject or reduce the claim.
From a couple of days ago:


UA trying to trick ticketed passengers into believing the passengers don't have a valid right to travel as ticketed on the paid booking (even when the passengers do have such right) is a loss-mitigation strategy, perhaps one that is intended to help satisfy the insurers of itself or its vendor.
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Old Feb 14, 15, 4:07 am
  #3695  
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Originally Posted by jlienert
As a data point, I was denied boarding at Heathrow about 2 hours ago. I D given the party line about a third party error. Ah well. It was worth a shot.
Nice you can be philosophical about it - but still disappointing!

Did they give you any formal written advice?
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Old Feb 14, 15, 4:09 am
  #3696  
 
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Originally Posted by jlienert
As a data point, I was denied boarding at Heathrow about 2 hours ago. I D given the party line about a third party error. Ah well. It was worth a shot.
Were you able to get anything in writing at LHR about your cause for denied boarding?

-FlyerBeek
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Old Feb 14, 15, 4:12 am
  #3697  
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I have seen some people given printouts with the eticket number pull leading to the PNR with the status of each segment showing as "voided" (or "void")

Originally Posted by IAN-UK
Nice you can be philosophical about it - but still disappointing!

Did they give you any formal written advice?
None at all. They send passengers to Additional Services/ticketing who just make verbal representations unless you ask for a printout of something. That is UA's standard approach at LHR on these tickets.

Not even any non-customized material on EC261/2004
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Old Feb 14, 15, 4:24 am
  #3698  
 
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Originally Posted by pointy
I think that UA's best defence is attack.
To prevent similar situations to this from becoming such an major issue again they ought to look into a criminal complaint against those who misrepresented material facts in order to take advantage of UA

It would make for a great segment in Cops !
taser taser taser
If United wanted a massive PR disaster on their hands, one sure way to do it would be to file criminal charges against their customers.

They'd also open themselves up to lawsuits and legal fees that would make their losses for honouring these fares look like chump change.

The misrepresentation issue has been done to death

Last edited by SCSA; Feb 14, 15 at 4:38 am
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Old Feb 14, 15, 4:37 am
  #3699  
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UA isn't a government prosecutor. UA may have the government on its side, but I doubt that any competent prosecutor with self-respect would even consider such a ridiculous notion as to try to prosecute ordinary buyers of these DKK ticketed bookings which UA voided.
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Old Feb 14, 15, 4:38 am
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Originally Posted by channa
Do you realize who we're dealing with here?

United Continental Holdings has probably the worst IT of any large carrier.

As a recent example, I checked a bag the other day, and my claim check said the date and time of the bag check was one day in the future, at that same time.

Their IT seriously doesn't work.
OMG, i hope that your bag has been delivered securely!
Anyway this is not an acceptable excuse: if you drive a car without brakes check-up, and finally you crash onto another car, you can be held responsible for negligence because you didn't check up your car regularly.
A 38 billion-year company can't have a so crappy IT system, and if it has all the possible negative consequences must be at its own risk only!
Originally Posted by lewinr
It is very likely that United's contract with the third party and even their own insurance company obligates United to do as much as possible to minimize any loss before making a claim. So that is what United are doing. Otherwise they will give the third party and/or their insurance company grounds to reject or reduce the claim.
I agree.

Furthermore guys, I repeat..

even if we're talking about thousands of tkts, the single cost for UA is just limited to taxes (partially) and food consumption on board:

personally I ended up to pay 60€+35€ for my tkt with UA, it means= 95 €; the total amount of taxes is 225 (+- 300€) this means that UA has basically to pay 207€ per person! this is not a huge amount!
Even if they ticketed e.g. 30.000 tkts= 6.210.000€| if 50.000= 10.350.000€! want we discuss about 100.000 tkts? = 20.700.000€! And we're talking about a 38 Billion-year $ company!
And probably, at least the 10% of these tkts will not be flown!


I mean, the argument that UA has to honor too many expensive tkts seems to me not too acceptable!

The main trouble for UA will be the CS flights operated by third carriers, but you don't have to forget that airlines have agrements and they don't end to pay the entire amount to LH/LX/SK etc. but UA could purpose tho these one a settlement agreement, considering to offer them the same ticket but operated by UA only. It could be fair!

What's your consideration on this?

Last edited by Paul4Travel; Feb 14, 15 at 4:48 am
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Old Feb 14, 15, 4:39 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
I have seen some people given printouts with the eticket number pull leading to the PNR with the status of each segment showing as "voided" (or "void")



None at all. They send passengers to Additional Services/ticketing who just make verbal representations unless you ask for a printout of something. That is UA's standard approach at LHR on these tickets.

Not even any non-customized material on EC261/2004
How would someone complain if they dont even give you the material on EC261/2004 to file the claim? Call police? Report to airport? note down name and number?

Originally Posted by Paul4Travel
OMG, i hope that your bag has been delivered securely!
Anyway this is not an acceptable excuse: if you drive a car without brakes check-up, and finally you crash onto another car, you can be held responsible for negligence because you didn't check up your car regularly.
A 38 billion-year company can't have a so crappy IT system, and if it has all the possible negative consequences must be at its own risk only!


I agree.

Furthermore guys, I repeat..

even if we're talking about thousands of tkts, the single cost for UA is just limited to taxes (partially) and food consumption on board:

personally I ended up to pay 60€+35€ for my tkt with UA, it means= 95 €; the total amount of taxes is 225 (+- 300€) this means that UA has basically to pay 207€ per person! this is not a huge amount!
Even if they ticketed e.g. 30.000 tkts= 6.210.000€| if 50.000= 10.350.000€! whant we discuss about 100.000 tkts? = 20.700.000€! And we're talking about a 30 billion $ company!

I mean, the argument that UA has to honor too many expensive tkts seems to me not too acceptable!

What's your consideration on this?
If they want to give us what we booked, its in deed a bit more expensive:
-Miles: They need to compensate the miles with other *A members as this case would "Inflate" the milageamount in the system
-Food: They do serve caviar, so I guess the base level of costs is higher, but still below 500€ I guess
-CodeShares: Let's see what happens here, but I bet they need to pay the original ticket price or at least some kind of "bulk price"
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Old Feb 14, 15, 4:43 am
  #3702  
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For EC261/2004 claims, you don't need to rely upon material supplied by the airline, although it may help.

I've used other things to provide evidence of the incident over which the airline is stonewalling on the issue of EC261/2004 payouts.
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Old Feb 14, 15, 4:45 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
For EC261/2004 claims, you don't need to rely upon material supplied by the airline, although it may help.

I've used other things to provide evidence of the incident over which the airline is stonewalling on the issue of EC261/2004 payouts.
For example? Who proves that you wanted to board and actually were at the airport?
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Old Feb 14, 15, 4:48 am
  #3704  
 
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United announced that it wont be honoring the absurdly cheap bookings, which it said were caused by a third-party software vendors currency conversion error.
I like how United always "Announces" stuff.

Thats like one of our German politians lately saying: "Hereby I announce that the NSA Scandal is over"......
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Old Feb 14, 15, 4:48 am
  #3705  
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Come on, you can figure that out yourself.

Even if not, I already mentioned that UA is able to pull up the itinerary using the eticket number and prints out that the ticket segments were marked with the status as "Void/voided".
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