Feb 11, 2015, 11:49 am
Last edit by: drewguy
If you've never gone through this process read this before posting!
Note: Please consider that with high probability, United is monitoring this thread, so please pay attention on what you post!
DOT Investigation Updates
-------
According to USA Today, Ben Mutzabaugh:
Note that United has also accidentally cancelled "legitimate" tickets paid for in USD, purchased in USD from LHR... Please check your other tickets if purchased today to ensure they were not unilaterally cancelled.
However, there is no chance at all that you can have your tickets re-instated if you complain to DOT on the basis of DOT rule § 399.88:
Form for filing DOT complaint. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.
Link to PDF of enforcement bodies for European customers affected. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.
Tips for DOT Complaint:
Template For Complaint:
-----
Tips for retrieving your ticket number:
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...NRCD=2/11/2015
Freedom of Information Act Request
File #2015-147, Office of the Secretary of Transportation - Receipt acknowledged 3/13/15
http://www.dot.gov/individuals/foia/office-secretary-foia-information
Relevant excerpt from my request on 2/24/15. There no need for multiple requests for the same thing, though feel free to request more or different information obviously. I'll post any updates as I get them.
"Under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S. C. subsection 552, I am requesting access to any and all records of correspondence, including electronic, between anyone working for, or on the behalf of, United Airlines and its subsidiaries, and with anyone working for, or on the behalf of, the Department of Transportation; specifically this would include only the date range beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015.
In addition, I am requesting access to any and all internal records and correspondence in relation to coming to the decision made on February 23rd, 2015 regarding the Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings Determination Regarding United Airlines Mistaken Fare, with the exception of any of the consumer submitted complaints via phone, email, website, or letter. Specifically, this would be any records beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015."
Note: Please consider that with high probability, United is monitoring this thread, so please pay attention on what you post!
DOT Investigation Updates
- 02/23/15: DOT says UA does not have to honor the fare; link to DOT's full explanation (pdf)
- 02/12/15: DOT Statement
- 02/12/15: fox news mentions DOT investigation and mention update by 5:00 pm ET -- posted by xSTRIKEx6864
- 02/12/15: Fox news clip -- posted by FlyingLasse
- 02/12/15: Another clip on fox news interviewing the pointsguy -- posted by FlyingLasse
- 02/12/15: Person in charge at the dot is Alex Taday (don't bombard him with email - or we will all regret it) -- posted by sonofzeus
- 02/12/15: Fox News update: UA honoring fares will depends on complaints made at the DOT.... -- posted by synd
-------
According to USA Today, Ben Mutzabaugh:
United is voiding the bookings of several thousand individuals who were attempting to take advantage of an error a third-party software provider made when it applied an incorrect currency exchange rate, despite United having properly filed its fares. Most of these bookings were for travel originating in the United Kingdom, and the level of bookings made with Danish Kroner as the local currency was significantly higher than normal during the limited period that customers made these bookings.
However, there is no chance at all that you can have your tickets re-instated if you complain to DOT on the basis of DOT rule § 399.88:
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
Link to PDF of enforcement bodies for European customers affected. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.
Tips for DOT Complaint:
- File on DOT for every ticket number affected.
- If you have one reservation with four people traveling (four tickets) file 4 DOT complaints, one per ticket.
- If you have separate reservations, file a DOT complaint for each.
- The DOT complaint website may take several minutes to load, depending on demand.
- When you go to upload a file, be careful as it will reset all your radio buttons. So, if you want a copy of the complaint, make sure you double check that "Yes" is still selected before submitting, especially if you upload a file.
Template For Complaint:
United has unilaterally cancelled my ticket without my consent.
Facts:
1. The ticket was ticketed (had a ticket number).
2. I received a confirmation number, ticket number, and emails stating both
3. The ticket was paid for and my credit card charged.
United must reinstate the ticket within its original cabin. This trip is for travel TO the United States.
At no time during the booking process was any other fare than the Danish Krone equivalent displayed. As a reasonable, prudent consumer, I believed I was paying the price displayed to me on the website. United never sent or displayed the equivalent fare in any other currency.
Trip Details
Ticket #: 016XXXXXXXXXX
PNR: XXXXXX
Routing: LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL
Attachments: Attached is a document showing the ticket, routing, and providing proof that the reservation was ticketed.
Filename: Cancelled - UA Reservation - LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL - XXXXXX - 016XXXXXXXXXX.pdf
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant Law |
| http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88 |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant FAQ |
| http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/EAPP_2_FAQ.pdf |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?
Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a “mistake.”
Facts:
1. The ticket was ticketed (had a ticket number).
2. I received a confirmation number, ticket number, and emails stating both
3. The ticket was paid for and my credit card charged.
United must reinstate the ticket within its original cabin. This trip is for travel TO the United States.
At no time during the booking process was any other fare than the Danish Krone equivalent displayed. As a reasonable, prudent consumer, I believed I was paying the price displayed to me on the website. United never sent or displayed the equivalent fare in any other currency.
Trip Details
Ticket #: 016XXXXXXXXXX
PNR: XXXXXX
Routing: LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL
Attachments: Attached is a document showing the ticket, routing, and providing proof that the reservation was ticketed.
Filename: Cancelled - UA Reservation - LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL - XXXXXX - 016XXXXXXXXXX.pdf
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant Law |
| http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88 |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.
(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant FAQ |
| http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/EAPP_2_FAQ.pdf |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?
Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a “mistake.”
Tips for retrieving your ticket number:
- paste(right click copy link location first) following link into your web browser
- change XXXXXX next to COPNR= for your reservation number and LASTNAME next to LN= for you SURNAME
- go to the webpage address you have just created
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...NRCD=2/11/2015
Originally Posted by MatthewLAX
Originally Posted by MatthewLAX View Post
R E L A X
Breathe deep.
Congrats on all who got in.
Now comes the fun part.
1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically checks how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire.
2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. Novices contact source to change seats or inquire about upgrades, Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.
3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over paper ticket delivery - Novices Frantically check otheFedEx website every few hours, constant monitoring of driveway for FedEx truck. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax.
4. Glee and happiness - Paper tickets in hand, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.
5. Stress Stage 2 - Rumors of fare not being honored, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial committments to their trip. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and is patient.
6. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week to 10 days after mistake fare is published. Confirmed information from the source as to whether or not tickets will be honored.
7a. Pure Joy (Icelandair style- Fare is Honored) - Lots of happy people, FT threads on shared information regarding hotels, restaurants, tours, etc. Jealousy from others sets in. First "FT guinea pigs" embark, post confirmation threads that all is ok.
7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.
8a Success (Honored) - Trip Report thread becomes very active
R E L A X
Breathe deep.
Congrats on all who got in.
Now comes the fun part.
1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically checks how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire.
2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. Novices contact source to change seats or inquire about upgrades, Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.
3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over paper ticket delivery - Novices Frantically check otheFedEx website every few hours, constant monitoring of driveway for FedEx truck. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax.
4. Glee and happiness - Paper tickets in hand, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.
5. Stress Stage 2 - Rumors of fare not being honored, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial committments to their trip. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and is patient.
6. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week to 10 days after mistake fare is published. Confirmed information from the source as to whether or not tickets will be honored.
7a. Pure Joy (Icelandair style- Fare is Honored) - Lots of happy people, FT threads on shared information regarding hotels, restaurants, tours, etc. Jealousy from others sets in. First "FT guinea pigs" embark, post confirmation threads that all is ok.
7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.
8a Success (Honored) - Trip Report thread becomes very active
Freedom of Information Act Request
File #2015-147, Office of the Secretary of Transportation - Receipt acknowledged 3/13/15
http://www.dot.gov/individuals/foia/office-secretary-foia-information
Relevant excerpt from my request on 2/24/15. There no need for multiple requests for the same thing, though feel free to request more or different information obviously. I'll post any updates as I get them.
"Under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S. C. subsection 552, I am requesting access to any and all records of correspondence, including electronic, between anyone working for, or on the behalf of, United Airlines and its subsidiaries, and with anyone working for, or on the behalf of, the Department of Transportation; specifically this would include only the date range beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015.
In addition, I am requesting access to any and all internal records and correspondence in relation to coming to the decision made on February 23rd, 2015 regarding the Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings Determination Regarding United Airlines Mistaken Fare, with the exception of any of the consumer submitted complaints via phone, email, website, or letter. Specifically, this would be any records beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015."
[PREM FARE GONE] UA: NCL-EWR 600 DKK (mistaken fare) DOT ruled; see wiki for link
Feb 14, 2015, 8:16 am
#3725
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 3
Hi FT'ers from Germany!
Followed this thread from the beginning (yes, all 3700 posts. My RL seems to suck, lol!).
I am qualified travel agent and wonder how UA can cancel the tickets by blaming a third party for that kind of mistake. If I issue a ticket of any airline thru Amadeus, i.e., and the conversion rate is wrong, it is not my liability nor the airline's. The CRS is the one to blame and for that reason any company being involved in air ticket fare filing has incredibly expensive insurances because we all know mistakes actually do happen.
Insurances often require the airlines or travel agents to do their very best to reduce the loss. We had this issue once with tickets originating in CMB (Colombo, Sri Lanka). We were asked by different airlines to cancel tickets to do them a favour. We did not, the airlines reinstated the tickets and we filed a complaint towards Amadeus. We never heard of them, guests have flown and nobody ever knew that this happened. Later on Amadeus stated that any error(fare), which is not manipulated and priced automatically by the system, is valid. So Amadeus and their supplier are responsible and liable. Not the airlines and not us as travel agents.
So now I wonder why UA cannot just pass this issue on to the third party who filed the wrong currency conversion. They are insured for that reason and would have to pay the loss UA suffered. Simply don't get it.
Furthermore, if were UA, my approach would be totally different. I would communicate the situation but show a goodwill. Let them fly their tickets but cut all benefits from the tickets, like mileage accrual, rebooking and cancellation possibility.
Just my 2 cents on that matter.
Followed this thread from the beginning (yes, all 3700 posts. My RL seems to suck, lol!).
I am qualified travel agent and wonder how UA can cancel the tickets by blaming a third party for that kind of mistake. If I issue a ticket of any airline thru Amadeus, i.e., and the conversion rate is wrong, it is not my liability nor the airline's. The CRS is the one to blame and for that reason any company being involved in air ticket fare filing has incredibly expensive insurances because we all know mistakes actually do happen.
Insurances often require the airlines or travel agents to do their very best to reduce the loss. We had this issue once with tickets originating in CMB (Colombo, Sri Lanka). We were asked by different airlines to cancel tickets to do them a favour. We did not, the airlines reinstated the tickets and we filed a complaint towards Amadeus. We never heard of them, guests have flown and nobody ever knew that this happened. Later on Amadeus stated that any error(fare), which is not manipulated and priced automatically by the system, is valid. So Amadeus and their supplier are responsible and liable. Not the airlines and not us as travel agents.
So now I wonder why UA cannot just pass this issue on to the third party who filed the wrong currency conversion. They are insured for that reason and would have to pay the loss UA suffered. Simply don't get it.
Furthermore, if were UA, my approach would be totally different. I would communicate the situation but show a goodwill. Let them fly their tickets but cut all benefits from the tickets, like mileage accrual, rebooking and cancellation possibility.
Just my 2 cents on that matter.
Feb 14, 2015, 8:23 am
#3726
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
Don't forget that there is also another potential cost to United, if they get things wrong and unlawfully deny passengers boarding they would also be liable under EU261.
I doubt that the legal system of any member state in the EU would be able to rule that those with Danish billing address have a legal contract with United, and are therefore covered by EU261, yet those who live elsewhere in the EU are not covered in the same instance.
I wouldn't imagine that either airline would be happy about being placed in that situation by the actions of United.
I doubt that the legal system of any member state in the EU would be able to rule that those with Danish billing address have a legal contract with United, and are therefore covered by EU261, yet those who live elsewhere in the EU are not covered in the same instance.
I wouldn't imagine that either airline would be happy about being placed in that situation by the actions of United.
The latter is what is threatened here: UA has backed out of its contract with you. Either DOT somehow persuades the airline to pick up its responsibilities, or you have no ticket. No ticket=no EC261/04.
With no ticket your European option would be limited to asking a court to decide whether or not UA had a valid reason to drop the contract. In essence you'd probably need to convince a judge that you bought the ticket in good faith, believing the price to be kosher. Depending on your itinerary, this might be rather difficult
However, if you do succeed in the convincing, then you might find yourself with the ticket, or with compensation. Either outcome would be far better than anything EC261 could provide you with.
On the Denmark/nationality/residence question: this is a red-herring.
In short, our eggs are in the DOT basket ....
Feb 14, 2015, 8:31 am
#3728
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: FRA/MUC/NUE
Programs: M&M SEN, Starbucks Gold
Posts: 315
Hi FT'ers from Germany!
Followed this thread from the beginning (yes, all 3700 posts. My RL seems to suck, lol!).
I am qualified travel agent and wonder how UA can cancel the tickets by blaming a third party for that kind of mistake. If I issue a ticket of any airline thru Amadeus, i.e., and the conversion rate is wrong, it is not my liability nor the airline's. The CRS is the one to blame and for that reason any company being involved in air ticket fare filing has incredibly expensive insurances because we all know mistakes actually do happen.
Insurances often require the airlines or travel agents to do their very best to reduce the loss. We had this issue once with tickets originating in CMB (Colombo, Sri Lanka). We were asked by different airlines to cancel tickets to do them a favour. We did not, the airlines reinstated the tickets and we filed a complaint towards Amadeus. We never heard of them, guests have flown and nobody ever knew that this happened. Later on Amadeus stated that any error(fare), which is not manipulated and priced automatically by the system, is valid. So Amadeus and their supplier are responsible and liable. Not the airlines and not us as travel agents.
So now I wonder why UA cannot just pass this issue on to the third party who filed the wrong currency conversion. They are insured for that reason and would have to pay the loss UA suffered. Simply don't get it.
Furthermore, if were UA, my approach would be totally different. I would communicate the situation but show a goodwill. Let them fly their tickets but cut all benefits from the tickets, like mileage accrual, rebooking and cancellation possibility.
Just my 2 cents on that matter.
Followed this thread from the beginning (yes, all 3700 posts. My RL seems to suck, lol!).
I am qualified travel agent and wonder how UA can cancel the tickets by blaming a third party for that kind of mistake. If I issue a ticket of any airline thru Amadeus, i.e., and the conversion rate is wrong, it is not my liability nor the airline's. The CRS is the one to blame and for that reason any company being involved in air ticket fare filing has incredibly expensive insurances because we all know mistakes actually do happen.
Insurances often require the airlines or travel agents to do their very best to reduce the loss. We had this issue once with tickets originating in CMB (Colombo, Sri Lanka). We were asked by different airlines to cancel tickets to do them a favour. We did not, the airlines reinstated the tickets and we filed a complaint towards Amadeus. We never heard of them, guests have flown and nobody ever knew that this happened. Later on Amadeus stated that any error(fare), which is not manipulated and priced automatically by the system, is valid. So Amadeus and their supplier are responsible and liable. Not the airlines and not us as travel agents.
So now I wonder why UA cannot just pass this issue on to the third party who filed the wrong currency conversion. They are insured for that reason and would have to pay the loss UA suffered. Simply don't get it.
Furthermore, if were UA, my approach would be totally different. I would communicate the situation but show a goodwill. Let them fly their tickets but cut all benefits from the tickets, like mileage accrual, rebooking and cancellation possibility.
Just my 2 cents on that matter.
That was my initial thought.
But as far as I know UA is not using Amadeus, atleast you can't check itiniarys on checkmytrip.com .
Feb 14, 2015, 8:32 am
#3729
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Zurich / Europe / New York
Programs: LH, BA, AA
Posts: 1,307
Being from Europe, one of my very first thoughts was not whether or not UA should honor these tickets, but UA potentially may expose itself to an EU Commission investigation into the way it conducts business and treatments towards consumers in the EU/EEA region. This can be very costly for UA if found any violation ...
Feb 14, 2015, 8:38 am
#3730
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: KSA
Programs: BA LTG, UA Gold, EK Silver, Hilton LT Diamond, Marriott LT Titanium, IHG Plat
Posts: 1,242
Is the advice that you complain to absolutely everyone or is it just sufficient to complain to the DoT and wait.
It seems that you can file under EU261, you can file a complaint with UAL etc but would one preclude the other (ie if DOT say UA must uphold then your complaint to UA or EU261 would become "void" as you would have your ticket back. However, if DOT turn you down then would EU261 be a possibility and would it be likely to succeed given DOT negative decision)
Finally, is there a time limit for filing under EU261 and do you have to complain to UA first
Just curious!
It seems that you can file under EU261, you can file a complaint with UAL etc but would one preclude the other (ie if DOT say UA must uphold then your complaint to UA or EU261 would become "void" as you would have your ticket back. However, if DOT turn you down then would EU261 be a possibility and would it be likely to succeed given DOT negative decision)
Finally, is there a time limit for filing under EU261 and do you have to complain to UA first
Just curious!
Feb 14, 2015, 8:42 am
#3731
Join Date: Feb 2014
Programs: Star Alliance Gold, AS MVP
Posts: 990
Being from Europe, one of my very first thoughts was not whether or not UA should honor these tickets, but UA potentially may expose itself to an EU Commission investigation into the way it conducts business and treatments towards consumers in the EU/EEA region. This can be very costly for UA if found any violation ...
Feb 14, 2015, 8:42 am
#3732
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Cheltenham
Programs: KLM Plat for Life , BA Gold, HH Silver, (Other half Diamond), IHG Gold
Posts: 2,398
Being from Europe, one of my very first thoughts was not whether or not UA should honor these tickets, but UA potentially may expose itself to an EU Commission investigation into the way it conducts business and treatments towards consumers in the EU/EEA region. This can be very costly for UA if found any violation ...
Feb 14, 2015, 8:43 am
#3733
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: LHR
Programs: M&M,HH Gold,Accor Plat.,Priority Club Plat. Ambassador,Club Carlson Gold,Marriott Gold,GHA Plat.
Posts: 1,627
Hi FT'ers from Germany!
Followed this thread from the beginning (yes, all 3700 posts. My RL seems to suck, lol!).
I am qualified travel agent and wonder how UA can cancel the tickets by blaming a third party for that kind of mistake. If I issue a ticket of any airline thru Amadeus, i.e., and the conversion rate is wrong, it is not my liability nor the airline's. The CRS is the one to blame and for that reason any company being involved in air ticket fare filing has incredibly expensive insurances because we all know mistakes actually do happen.
Insurances often require the airlines or travel agents to do their very best to reduce the loss. We had this issue once with tickets originating in CMB (Colombo, Sri Lanka). We were asked by different airlines to cancel tickets to do them a favour. We did not, the airlines reinstated the tickets and we filed a complaint towards Amadeus. We never heard of them, guests have flown and nobody ever knew that this happened. Later on Amadeus stated that any error(fare), which is not manipulated and priced automatically by the system, is valid. So Amadeus and their supplier are responsible and liable. Not the airlines and not us as travel agents.
So now I wonder why UA cannot just pass this issue on to the third party who filed the wrong currency conversion. They are insured for that reason and would have to pay the loss UA suffered. Simply don't get it.
Furthermore, if were UA, my approach would be totally different. I would communicate the situation but show a goodwill. Let them fly their tickets but cut all benefits from the tickets, like mileage accrual, rebooking and cancellation possibility.
Just my 2 cents on that matter.
Followed this thread from the beginning (yes, all 3700 posts. My RL seems to suck, lol!).
I am qualified travel agent and wonder how UA can cancel the tickets by blaming a third party for that kind of mistake. If I issue a ticket of any airline thru Amadeus, i.e., and the conversion rate is wrong, it is not my liability nor the airline's. The CRS is the one to blame and for that reason any company being involved in air ticket fare filing has incredibly expensive insurances because we all know mistakes actually do happen.
Insurances often require the airlines or travel agents to do their very best to reduce the loss. We had this issue once with tickets originating in CMB (Colombo, Sri Lanka). We were asked by different airlines to cancel tickets to do them a favour. We did not, the airlines reinstated the tickets and we filed a complaint towards Amadeus. We never heard of them, guests have flown and nobody ever knew that this happened. Later on Amadeus stated that any error(fare), which is not manipulated and priced automatically by the system, is valid. So Amadeus and their supplier are responsible and liable. Not the airlines and not us as travel agents.
So now I wonder why UA cannot just pass this issue on to the third party who filed the wrong currency conversion. They are insured for that reason and would have to pay the loss UA suffered. Simply don't get it.
Furthermore, if were UA, my approach would be totally different. I would communicate the situation but show a goodwill. Let them fly their tickets but cut all benefits from the tickets, like mileage accrual, rebooking and cancellation possibility.
Just my 2 cents on that matter.
That's what I'm substaining from the beginning!
UA or third party have insurances that cover these type of liabilities!
Last edited by Paul4Travel; Feb 14, 2015 at 9:08 am
Feb 14, 2015, 8:43 am
#3734
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cork or Amsterdam
Programs: HH Gold, GHA Titanium, Iprefer Elite, EI Concierge
Posts: 659
Beside the DOT, has someone actually complained to the Danish Consumer Ombudsman giving that these tickets were sold in DKK after being purchased on a website aimed at Danish consumers?
Feb 14, 2015, 8:53 am
#3735
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 462
Hi FT'ers from Germany!
Followed this thread from the beginning (yes, all 3700 posts. My RL seems to suck, lol!).
I am qualified travel agent and wonder how UA can cancel the tickets by blaming a third party for that kind of mistake. If I issue a ticket of any airline thru Amadeus, i.e., and the conversion rate is wrong, it is not my liability nor the airline's. The CRS is the one to blame and for that reason any company being involved in air ticket fare filing has incredibly expensive insurances because we all know mistakes actually do happen.
Insurances often require the airlines or travel agents to do their very best to reduce the loss. We had this issue once with tickets originating in CMB (Colombo, Sri Lanka). We were asked by different airlines to cancel tickets to do them a favour. We did not, the airlines reinstated the tickets and we filed a complaint towards Amadeus. We never heard of them, guests have flown and nobody ever knew that this happened. Later on Amadeus stated that any error(fare), which is not manipulated and priced automatically by the system, is valid. So Amadeus and their supplier are responsible and liable. Not the airlines and not us as travel agents.
So now I wonder why UA cannot just pass this issue on to the third party who filed the wrong currency conversion. They are insured for that reason and would have to pay the loss UA suffered. Simply don't get it.
Furthermore, if were UA, my approach would be totally different. I would communicate the situation but show a goodwill. Let them fly their tickets but cut all benefits from the tickets, like mileage accrual, rebooking and cancellation possibility.
Just my 2 cents on that matter.
Followed this thread from the beginning (yes, all 3700 posts. My RL seems to suck, lol!).
I am qualified travel agent and wonder how UA can cancel the tickets by blaming a third party for that kind of mistake. If I issue a ticket of any airline thru Amadeus, i.e., and the conversion rate is wrong, it is not my liability nor the airline's. The CRS is the one to blame and for that reason any company being involved in air ticket fare filing has incredibly expensive insurances because we all know mistakes actually do happen.
Insurances often require the airlines or travel agents to do their very best to reduce the loss. We had this issue once with tickets originating in CMB (Colombo, Sri Lanka). We were asked by different airlines to cancel tickets to do them a favour. We did not, the airlines reinstated the tickets and we filed a complaint towards Amadeus. We never heard of them, guests have flown and nobody ever knew that this happened. Later on Amadeus stated that any error(fare), which is not manipulated and priced automatically by the system, is valid. So Amadeus and their supplier are responsible and liable. Not the airlines and not us as travel agents.
So now I wonder why UA cannot just pass this issue on to the third party who filed the wrong currency conversion. They are insured for that reason and would have to pay the loss UA suffered. Simply don't get it.
Furthermore, if were UA, my approach would be totally different. I would communicate the situation but show a goodwill. Let them fly their tickets but cut all benefits from the tickets, like mileage accrual, rebooking and cancellation possibility.
Just my 2 cents on that matter.