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[PREM FARE GONE] UA: NCL-EWR 600 DKK (mistaken fare) DOT ruled; see wiki for link

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Old Feb 11, 2015, 11:49 am
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Last edit by: drewguy
If you've never gone through this process read this before posting!
Note: Please consider that with high probability, United is monitoring this thread, so please pay attention on what you post!

DOT Investigation UpdatesNews Media Updates:

-------

According to USA Today, Ben Mutzabaugh:
United is voiding the bookings of several thousand individuals who were attempting to take advantage of an error a third-party software provider made when it applied an incorrect currency exchange rate, despite United having properly filed its fares. Most of these bookings were for travel originating in the United Kingdom, and the level of bookings made with Danish Kroner as the local currency was significantly higher than normal during the limited period that customers made these bookings.
Note that United has also accidentally cancelled "legitimate" tickets paid for in USD, purchased in USD from LHR... Please check your other tickets if purchased today to ensure they were not unilaterally cancelled.

However, there is no chance at all that you can have your tickets re-instated if you complain to DOT on the basis of DOT rule § 399.88:
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.

(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
Form for filing DOT complaint. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.

Link to PDF of enforcement bodies for European customers affected. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.


Tips for DOT Complaint:
  • File on DOT for every ticket number affected.
  • If you have one reservation with four people traveling (four tickets) file 4 DOT complaints, one per ticket.
  • If you have separate reservations, file a DOT complaint for each.
  • The DOT complaint website may take several minutes to load, depending on demand.
  • When you go to upload a file, be careful as it will reset all your radio buttons. So, if you want a copy of the complaint, make sure you double check that "Yes" is still selected before submitting, especially if you upload a file.

Template For Complaint:
United has unilaterally cancelled my ticket without my consent.

Facts:
1. The ticket was ticketed (had a ticket number).
2. I received a confirmation number, ticket number, and emails stating both
3. The ticket was paid for and my credit card charged.

United must reinstate the ticket within its original cabin. This trip is for travel TO the United States.

At no time during the booking process was any other fare than the Danish Krone equivalent displayed. As a reasonable, prudent consumer, I believed I was paying the price displayed to me on the website. United never sent or displayed the equivalent fare in any other currency.

Trip Details
Ticket #: 016XXXXXXXXXX
PNR: XXXXXX
Routing: LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL

Attachments: Attached is a document showing the ticket, routing, and providing proof that the reservation was ticketed.

Filename: Cancelled - UA Reservation - LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL - XXXXXX - 016XXXXXXXXXX.pdf

+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant Law |
| http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88 |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
§ 399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.

(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.

+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant FAQ |
| http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/EAPP_2_FAQ.pdf |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?

Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a “mistake.”
-----
Tips for retrieving your ticket number:
  1. paste(right click copy link location first) following link into your web browser
  2. change XXXXXX next to COPNR= for your reservation number and LASTNAME next to LN= for you SURNAME
  3. go to the webpage address you have just created

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...NRCD=2/11/2015


Originally Posted by MatthewLAX
Originally Posted by MatthewLAX View Post
R E L A X

Breathe deep.

Congrats on all who got in.

Now comes the fun part.

1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically checks how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire.

2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. Novices contact source to change seats or inquire about upgrades, Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.

3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over paper ticket delivery - Novices Frantically check otheFedEx website every few hours, constant monitoring of driveway for FedEx truck. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax.

4. Glee and happiness - Paper tickets in hand, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.

5. Stress Stage 2 - Rumors of fare not being honored, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial committments to their trip. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and is patient.

6. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week to 10 days after mistake fare is published. Confirmed information from the source as to whether or not tickets will be honored.

7a. Pure Joy (Icelandair style- Fare is Honored) - Lots of happy people, FT threads on shared information regarding hotels, restaurants, tours, etc. Jealousy from others sets in. First "FT guinea pigs" embark, post confirmation threads that all is ok.


7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.

8a Success (Honored) - Trip Report thread becomes very active


Freedom of Information Act Request
File #2015-147, Office of the Secretary of Transportation - Receipt acknowledged 3/13/15

http://www.dot.gov/individuals/foia/office-secretary-foia-information

Relevant excerpt from my request on 2/24/15. There no need for multiple requests for the same thing, though feel free to request more or different information obviously. I'll post any updates as I get them.

"Under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S. C. subsection 552, I am requesting access to any and all records of correspondence, including electronic, between anyone working for, or on the behalf of, United Airlines and its subsidiaries, and with anyone working for, or on the behalf of, the Department of Transportation; specifically this would include only the date range beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015.

In addition, I am requesting access to any and all internal records and correspondence in relation to coming to the decision made on February 23rd, 2015 regarding the Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings Determination Regarding United Airlines Mistaken Fare, with the exception of any of the consumer submitted complaints via phone, email, website, or letter. Specifically, this would be any records beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015."
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[PREM FARE GONE] UA: NCL-EWR 600 DKK (mistaken fare) DOT ruled; see wiki for link

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Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:01 pm
  #2026  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: BOS
Posts: 78
I wonder how DL would have handled this one. I understand not wanting to give away the Global First seats, but there may have been a better way to handle this.

United just has terrible PR, terrible customer service, and terrible leadership. This is just how I imagine them handling any problem honestly. I can't imagine what their corporate office is like.
alo53 is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:01 pm
  #2027  
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I'm most interested to see the outcome for those ticketed to depart in T-14 days and subject to cancellation within that time-frame. As far as I know there is no scope with EC261/2004 for a unilateral mistake in the ticket alleviating the need to pay compensation. UA claiming fraud is far-fetched. What would be the course of action for passengers in this situation? I cannot imagine the DOT would fast track it. I do not think that cancelling the ticket is any different than cancelling the flights. Indeed, for the average consumer anything that cancels flights is itself just a flight cancellation and the leg doesn't seem to take a different view. This would mean compensation and re-route under 261 but I do not think this has been considered by UA.

Naturally, very few of those who booked this fare in good faith will be traveling inside 14 days and the costs of honouring those tickets or paying compensation is a tiny fraction of the costs UA will/would have incurred.
hugolover is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:01 pm
  #2028  
 
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Posts: 446
Originally Posted by dera
Based on language used by UA so far, I believe they will play the "This was not a mistake fare, this was a conversion error" card. That is why they have stated many times, that the fares were loaded correctly but the "third party" is guilty for the wrong currency conversion.
Wasn't this exactly the (failed) argument used in the RGN mistake fares though.
burmans is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:02 pm
  #2029  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Originally Posted by scibuff
True, but in no other industry do suppliers have crazy rules for their products like airlines do either
Exactly. Reason airlines have rules like this is because they are also protected from numerous lawsuits due to ADA.
mbwmbw is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:02 pm
  #2030  
 
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Originally Posted by Willbur
Would add fuel to fire: call DOT at 855-368-4200 tomorrow to inquire about status of complaint.
I think there is already enough fuel in the fire... no need to further slow down their work.
FrequentStargazer is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:03 pm
  #2031  
 
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Programs: BA Gold, TK Elite Plus
Posts: 1,150
Has anyone complained to United before filing with DOT?
dera is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:03 pm
  #2032  
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Originally Posted by scibuff
True, but in no other industry do suppliers have crazy rules for their products like airlines do either
Gary Leff has some interesting analysis about all this tonight. He thinks UA probably consulted the DOT today before voiding the tickets. I'm not sure about that, but I think his overall reasoning is correct (and largely mirrors my own views). There's already some history of the DOT "knowing" that the current reg isn't "fair" to airlines, and a genuine hostility to those of us trying to game the system.

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/

Bottomline: I don't think it likely that anyone is going to get to fly on these tickets. You can fight it, or not, but the outcome will likely be the same.
iahphx is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:04 pm
  #2033  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Washington D.C. via Sao Paulo via Houston via Washington D.C. via Boston via New York
Posts: 1,172
Originally Posted by ekartash
If i own a bakery and one of my employees sells, by accident, a $200 cake for $2. Could i demand that the customer return the cake?
Um cake is not an agreement of a provided service, United has issued a ticket for a service they will provide, a cake is a cake, that you've sold and are no longer in possession of, good luck getting it back.


FYI I get the point and filed my DOT complaint
macdonaldj2 is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:05 pm
  #2034  
 
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Location: Atlanta, GA / San Francisco, CA
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Originally Posted by mbwmbw
He's not even working right now but heard from a friend. Doesn't have exact numbers but someone got a call because of the slow website...
I highly doubt that number. I don't think the total amount of tickets booked was 17000. Maybe they made a conversion error and meant 1700?

Since a vast majority probably haven't filed yet, that would mean the total number of bookings is probably closer to 100'000. Highly doubt that.
dera is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:05 pm
  #2035  
 
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Posts: 1,633
Originally Posted by Epicura
Update on EU pax rights:

Air pax rights http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens...r/index_en.htm

Complaint form for cancelled flights http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...nt_form_en.pdf

but I doubt this one will make much difference at the end of the day because there is an exception for cancellations on a 2 weeks notification (thus except for those travelling in the next 2 weeks!), towards additional financial compensation. The carrier can cancel your ticket when a refund is provided.


On the other hand, pax rights clearly state: Firstly, you may not be charged a higher price for a ticket because of your nationality or where you are buying the ticket from. IMHO this would be a valid perspective to file a complaint in the context of pax rights. Could become quite interesting to see how EU would deal with this...


Pricing issues should be notified to the national enforcment bodies:


http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...ent_bodies.pdf

Complaints can also be notified to local consumer centres:

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/contact_en.htm


And in general: procedures about consumer rights are open for EU-citizens (whether non-EU nationals living in EU or EU-nationals living outside EU).
Thanks for this, much appreciated.
FlyIgglesFly is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:06 pm
  #2036  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: BOS
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Hyatt Plat, SPG/MAR Gold, Nat'l EEE
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by hugolover
I'm most interested to see the outcome for those ticketed to depart in T-14 days and subject to cancellation within that time-frame. As far as I know there is no scope with EC261/2004 for a unilateral mistake in the ticket alleviating the need to pay compensation. UA claiming fraud is far-fetched. What would be the course of action for passengers in this situation? I cannot imagine the DOT would fast track it. I do not think that cancelling the ticket is any different than cancelling the flights. Indeed, for the average consumer anything that cancels flights is itself just a flight cancellation and the leg doesn't seem to take a different view. This would mean compensation and re-route under 261 but I do not think this has been considered by UA.

Naturally, very few of those who booked this fare in good faith will be traveling inside 14 days and the costs of honouring those tickets or paying compensation is a tiny fraction of the costs UA will/would have incurred.
My first itinerary was scheduled for Feb 16, well within the 14 day window. I have a positioning flight on hold for Saturday, but am scared to take that flight and then be stuck in LHR without a valid ticket.
Ender4576 is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:06 pm
  #2037  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 101
Originally Posted by Epicura
Update on EU pax rights:

Air pax rights http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens...r/index_en.htm

Complaint form for cancelled flights http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...nt_form_en.pdf

but I doubt this one will make much difference at the end of the day because there is an exception for cancellations on a 2 weeks notification (thus except for those travelling in the next 2 weeks!), towards additional financial compensation. The carrier can cancel your ticket when a refund is provided.


On the other hand, pax rights clearly state: Firstly, you may not be charged a higher price for a ticket because of your nationality or where you are buying the ticket from. IMHO this would be a valid perspective to file a complaint in the context of pax rights. Could become quite interesting to see how EU would deal with this...


Pricing issues should be notified to the national enforcment bodies:


http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...ent_bodies.pdf

Complaints can also be notified to local consumer centres:

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/contact_en.htm


And in general: procedures about consumer rights are open for EU-citizens (whether non-EU nationals living in EU or EU-nationals living outside EU).
So as a US citizen filing a complaint because US cancelled by LH flight, I have no recourse here, right? Or give it a whirl?
Parachute07 is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:08 pm
  #2038  
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Originally Posted by ekartash
If i own a bakery and one of my employees sells, by accident, a $200 cake for $2. Could i demand that the customer return the cake?
What type of frosting ?

im-headed-west is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:09 pm
  #2039  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: DCA
Programs: DL PE, Hyatt Diamond, HH Gold, UA Prem, PC Plat
Posts: 653
Seattle Times has a poll up: Should UA Honor Tickets Sold?
hoosiereph is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:12 pm
  #2040  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York
Programs: AA Gold, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 592
Originally Posted by im-headed-west
What type of frosting ?

Better than anything UA serves on their flights. I am not even sure i want to take these flights. UAL premium is not something i look forward to. But a deal is a deal. I want my tickets honored.
ekartash is offline  


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