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[PREM FARE GONE] UA: NCL-EWR 600 DKK (mistaken fare) DOT ruled; see wiki for link

Old Feb 11, 2015, 11:49 am
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Last edit by: drewguy
If you've never gone through this process read this before posting!
Note: Please consider that with high probability, United is monitoring this thread, so please pay attention on what you post!

DOT Investigation UpdatesNews Media Updates:

-------

According to USA Today, Ben Mutzabaugh:
United is voiding the bookings of several thousand individuals who were attempting to take advantage of an error a third-party software provider made when it applied an incorrect currency exchange rate, despite United having properly filed its fares. Most of these bookings were for travel originating in the United Kingdom, and the level of bookings made with Danish Kroner as the local currency was significantly higher than normal during the limited period that customers made these bookings.
Note that United has also accidentally cancelled "legitimate" tickets paid for in USD, purchased in USD from LHR... Please check your other tickets if purchased today to ensure they were not unilaterally cancelled.

However, there is no chance at all that you can have your tickets re-instated if you complain to DOT on the basis of DOT rule 399.88:
399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.

(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.
Form for filing DOT complaint. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.

Link to PDF of enforcement bodies for European customers affected. File complaint as soon as your ticket is cancelled.


Tips for DOT Complaint:
  • File on DOT for every ticket number affected.
  • If you have one reservation with four people traveling (four tickets) file 4 DOT complaints, one per ticket.
  • If you have separate reservations, file a DOT complaint for each.
  • The DOT complaint website may take several minutes to load, depending on demand.
  • When you go to upload a file, be careful as it will reset all your radio buttons. So, if you want a copy of the complaint, make sure you double check that "Yes" is still selected before submitting, especially if you upload a file.

Template For Complaint:
United has unilaterally cancelled my ticket without my consent.

Facts:
1. The ticket was ticketed (had a ticket number).
2. I received a confirmation number, ticket number, and emails stating both
3. The ticket was paid for and my credit card charged.

United must reinstate the ticket within its original cabin. This trip is for travel TO the United States.

At no time during the booking process was any other fare than the Danish Krone equivalent displayed. As a reasonable, prudent consumer, I believed I was paying the price displayed to me on the website. United never sent or displayed the equivalent fare in any other currency.

Trip Details
Ticket #: 016XXXXXXXXXX
PNR: XXXXXX
Routing: LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL

Attachments: Attached is a document showing the ticket, routing, and providing proof that the reservation was ticketed.

Filename: Cancelled - UA Reservation - LHR-EWR-LAX-HNL - XXXXXX - 016XXXXXXXXXX.pdf

+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant Law |
| http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88 |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
399.88 Prohibition on post-purchase price increase.

(a) It is an unfair and deceptive practice within the meaning of 49 U.S.C. 41712 for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, or of a tour (i.e., a combination of air transportation and ground or cruise accommodations), or tour component (e.g., a hotel stay) that includes scheduled air transportation within, to or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation, tour or tour component to a consumer, including but not limited to an increase in the price of the seat, an increase in the price for the carriage of passenger baggage, or an increase in an applicable fuel surcharge, after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of an increase in a government-imposed tax or fee. A purchase is deemed to have occurred when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer.

+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Relevant FAQ |
| http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/EAPP_2_FAQ.pdf |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Does the prohibition on post-purchase price increases in section 399.88(a) apply in the situation where a carrier mistakenly offers an airfare due to a computer problem or human error and a consumer purchases the ticket at that fare before the carrier is able to fix the mistake?

Section 399.88(a) states that it is an unfair and deceptive practice for any seller of scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, or of a tour or tour component that includes scheduled air transportation within, to, or from the United States, to increase the price of that air transportation to a consumer after the air transportation has been purchased by the consumer, except in the case of a government-imposed tax or fee and only if the passenger is advised of a possible increase before purchasing a ticket. A purchase occurs when the full amount agreed upon has been paid by the consumer. Therefore, if a consumer purchases a fare and that consumer receives confirmation (such as a confirmation email and/or the purchase appears on their credit card statement or online account summary) of their purchase, then the seller of air transportation cannot increase the price of that air transportation to that consumer, even when the fare is a mistake.
-----
Tips for retrieving your ticket number:
  1. paste(right click copy link location first) following link into your web browser
  2. change XXXXXX next to COPNR= for your reservation number and LASTNAME next to LN= for you SURNAME
  3. go to the webpage address you have just created

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/app...NRCD=2/11/2015


Originally Posted by MatthewLAX
Originally Posted by MatthewLAX View Post
R E L A X

Breathe deep.

Congrats on all who got in.

Now comes the fun part.

1. Discovery - mistake fare is posted on FT. Novices frantically checks how much vacation time they have and if the dates of availability mesh with their schedules. Experienced FTers just book it and worry about contacting spouses or their boss later. Word spreads like wildfire.

2. Excitement - Tickets purchased, confirmation emails received and dates of travel shared with other FTers. Discussions of what to see and do and where to stay crop up in other threads. Novices contact source to change seats or inquire about upgrades, Seasoned FTers sit back and enjoy reading the discussion threads.

3. Stress Stage 1 - Concern over paper ticket delivery - Novices Frantically check otheFedEx website every few hours, constant monitoring of driveway for FedEx truck. Seasoned FT veterans sit back and relax.

4. Glee and happiness - Paper tickets in hand, vacation request submitted, spouses finally informed, hotel reservations made and bragging to friends and co-workers begins. Both novices and experts get very excited.

5. Stress Stage 2 - Rumors of fare not being honored, discussion threads about the airline and ticketing agency ensue. Rumors crop up like crabgrass at this stage. Many FTers begin to worry excessively about whether or not the trip will happen. Novices make non-refundable and financial committments to their trip. Seasoned FTers make mixed drinks (and maybe a sandwich) and is patient.

6. Reality Check - Accurate information is obtained - usually takes place a week to 10 days after mistake fare is published. Confirmed information from the source as to whether or not tickets will be honored.

7a. Pure Joy (Icelandair style- Fare is Honored) - Lots of happy people, FT threads on shared information regarding hotels, restaurants, tours, etc. Jealousy from others sets in. First "FT guinea pigs" embark, post confirmation threads that all is ok.


7b Hostile Feelings (Copa Airlines Style - fare is not honored) - Many angry and disappointed FTers. Refunds are issued. Novices have multiple discussion threads of lawsuits and hostile correspondence, FT pros mutter "c'est la vie" and look for the next fare mistake.

8a Success (Honored) - Trip Report thread becomes very active


Freedom of Information Act Request
File #2015-147, Office of the Secretary of Transportation - Receipt acknowledged 3/13/15

http://www.dot.gov/individuals/foia/office-secretary-foia-information

Relevant excerpt from my request on 2/24/15. There no need for multiple requests for the same thing, though feel free to request more or different information obviously. I'll post any updates as I get them.

"Under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S. C. subsection 552, I am requesting access to any and all records of correspondence, including electronic, between anyone working for, or on the behalf of, United Airlines and its subsidiaries, and with anyone working for, or on the behalf of, the Department of Transportation; specifically this would include only the date range beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015.

In addition, I am requesting access to any and all internal records and correspondence in relation to coming to the decision made on February 23rd, 2015 regarding the Office of Aviation Enforcement and Proceedings Determination Regarding United Airlines Mistaken Fare, with the exception of any of the consumer submitted complaints via phone, email, website, or letter. Specifically, this would be any records beginning on February 11th, 2015 through and including February 24th, 2015."
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[PREM FARE GONE] UA: NCL-EWR 600 DKK (mistaken fare) DOT ruled; see wiki for link

Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:33 pm
  #2071  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,310
Is anyone else scared about how many in this thread seem to have a lawyer on speed dial?
Jesperss is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:34 pm
  #2072  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 43
Originally Posted by Irelandflyer
UAL's finances are really their business rather than mine.
That is just too simplistic. If you are getting a ticket for 1/200th of its actual value then it does matter how an airline conducts business. We aren't talking about hundreds of dollars of lost revenue per ticket like the majority of mistake fares but more like ten grand a pop. All that adds up quickly and something would need to make up the difference whether it be cuts in personnel, in-flight services, or maybe even safety. UA may seem like a big company, but it is not in any position to kiss millions and millions of dollars goodbye for the sake of goodwill.

As for the DOT's wrath, lawmakers are on United's side. This is quoted from the DOT: "The Enforcement Office has become concerned that increasingly mistaken fares are getting posted on frequent-flyer community blogs and travel-deal sites, and individuals are purchasing these tickets in bad faith and not on the mistaken belief that a good deal is now available."

Since new regs are still being debated, it's possible that your mistake fares could be reinstated, but keep this in mind: Any victory dance will be short-lived because, if UA is forced to honor these fares, it may well be the straw that finally breaks the camel's back. Next time there is another glitch, there may no longer be any DOT regs to protect those rock-bottom tickets.
chancer is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:34 pm
  #2073  
 
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Just filed my 3 complaints. Thanks for the links in the Wiki! I appreciate it.
kyushuman is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:34 pm
  #2074  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 101
Originally Posted by Epicura
You actually do in the perspective of European pax rights

and applies if you are:

departing from any airport situated in the EU, or
arriving in the EU with an EU carrier or one from Iceland, Norway or Switzerland.
.

Only for the consumer rights (and complaining at EU consumer rights center) there should be a EU-citizen link.
Ok, great. Thanks!
Parachute07 is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:35 pm
  #2075  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 19
Anyone still have their reservations intact? Mine is, LHR-CLE on the 16th. Is it just taking them awhile to get through these or might the proximity be helping me here? Wishful thinking I'm sure.
burgetka is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:35 pm
  #2076  
 
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Originally Posted by iahphx
Sorry, but that argument doesn't make me very sympathetic to the poor ticket holders "plight."



Have any airlines actually been fined yet for not honoring mistake fares? The idea of fines here seems absurd. I guess the DOT could make UA honor the fare, but I think that's a longshot. The most likely outcome is the DOT comes up with a rationale to do the "right thing" -- which is to not let us buy these tickets for pennies on the dollar when we were clearly gaming the system. That ruling could have consequences in the future when the facts aren't so clear cut. For instance, I remember being involved in a BA incident a few years ago when they cancelled all our $500 USA-India coach tickets (some, like me actually paid less, but they also cancelled the $500 tickets). That seemed like a case where consumers were in the right, and the airline in the wrong.
sorry, but you have clearly no idea what you are talking about. DOT cannot make any airline do anything. All DOT can do is fine an airline for a violation. The airline may not even pay then.
Deltahater is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:37 pm
  #2077  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
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After filing the complaint, the response form gives language that basically says they do not mediate the individual complaints. Not sure what they mean, I thought that is the whole point

Although we do not mediate individual complaints, if your complaint concerns airline service we will enter it in our computerized industry monitoring system, which serves as a basis for rulemaking, legislation and research.
dlandz is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:37 pm
  #2078  
 
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Originally Posted by chancer
That is just too simplistic. If you are getting a ticket for 1/200th of its actual value then it does matter how an airline conducts business. We aren't talking about hundreds of dollars of lost revenue per ticket like the majority of mistake fares but more like ten grand a pop. All that adds up quickly and something would need to make up the difference whether it be cuts in personnel, in-flight services, or maybe even safety. UA may seem like a big company, but it is not in any position to kiss millions and millions of dollars goodbye for the sake of goodwill.
The cost for UA metal flights is not the fare difference. 99% of these tickets would not have been booked at full price, and the full-fare paying load in J/F is far from 100%. Their losses are from partner bookings which they will cancel for sure, and the "production cost" of transferring a passenger in a premium cabin, likely some hundreds of dollars per pax.
dera is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:37 pm
  #2079  
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Originally Posted by DC777Fan
As I said like 50 pages ago ... 17,000 tickets is NOTHING compared to transatlantic capacity over a 330 day period... 50 seats per day is well, well, well, short of 1 per flight.
While I agree it averages to 1 per flight, looking at the LHR-EWR flight on the 787 that we had booked, it has 36 business class seats. When I looked this afternoon, it was J0 and all 36 were occupied. After the cancellations, there are only 6 seats taken. Therefore, the impact on this 1 flight was 30 mistake fares...
JIMBOLIGUY is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:37 pm
  #2080  
 
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Beside all speculations, could you confirm if also the status of your ticket has changed into:
"! Your itinerary cannot be retrieved, since it does not contain any active flight segments. If you require assistance, please contact United Reservations." ?
If I correctly understand it, it means that there are no active flight segments...it's not saying my ticket is cancelled as they wrote before.
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Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:38 pm
  #2081  
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Originally Posted by mbwmbw
One of my friends purchased 52 round trips, one per a week for the next year...
That might be more than 7 dog years of travel !
im-headed-west is online now  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:38 pm
  #2082  
 
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Originally Posted by Deltahater
sorry, but you have clearly no idea what you are talking about. DOT cannot make any airline do anything. All DOT can do is fine an airline for a violation. The airline may not even pay then.
Pretty much this ^ - even if DoT fines UA, UA may refuse to pay the fine and only a federal judge can make them pay it. To me it seems more likely that the case would be thrown out because even DoT would probably side with UA (as DoT already said that its rules are NOT to protect abuse of genuine mistakes such as this one)
scibuff is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:39 pm
  #2083  
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Originally Posted by Deltahater
sorry, but you have clearly no idea what you are talking about. DOT cannot make any airline do anything. All DOT can do is fine an airline for a violation. The airline may not even pay then.
I am sorry you think I have no idea what I am talking about.

But if you thought about it some more, you might realize that "fining" is the same thing as making the airlines honor the tickets.

Just like the Federal gov't can't make states adopt a 21 drinking age. But they can take away all their Federal highway funds if they don't. Same thing. No?
iahphx is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:40 pm
  #2084  
 
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Originally Posted by scibuff
Pretty much this ^ - even if DoT fines UA, UA may refuse to pay the fine and only a federal judge can make them pay it. To me it seems more likely that the case would be thrown out because even DoT would probably side with UA (as DoT already said that its rules are NOT to protect abuse of genuine mistakes such as this one)
I'm insulted if they say my single simple LHR-EWR-LHR in business class booking that I made in Copenhagen using my US DKK account is considered abusive.

I understand if someone has 52 flights booked that it will be considered abusive, or if you have 15 random legs in LX and LH F, but a single trip that I actually have to take anyway (and have documents to prove it), that is not abusive.
dera is offline  
Old Feb 11, 2015, 7:41 pm
  #2085  
 
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Originally Posted by chancer
As for the DOT's wrath, lawmakers are on United's side. This is quoted from the DOT: "The Enforcement Office has become concerned that increasingly mistaken fares are getting posted on frequent-flyer community blogs and travel-deal sites, and individuals are purchasing these tickets in bad faith and not on the mistaken belief that a good deal is now available."

Since new regs are still being debated, it's possible that your mistake fares could be reinstated, but keep this in mind: Any victory dance will be short-lived because, if UA is forced to honor these fares, it may well be the straw that finally breaks the camel's back. Next time there is another glitch, there may no longer be any DOT regs to protect those rock-bottom tickets.
^. If one thing all these DOT complaints will do, it will be to rollback protections, regardless of the outcome here. Of course its easy for me to say since I didn't get in, but this is very clearly a mistake. What worries me is that the inevitable rollback will not protect those who buy fares which are not so obviously mistakes.
whakojacko is offline  

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