Jun 19, 2013, 9:45 pm
Last edit by: fti
People, please edit/use the wiki so same questions are not always asked.
The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.
Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.
Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.
CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.
Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.
If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.
To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.
To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.
The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:
Other Letters:
Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.
Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612
Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612
Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt
Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt
Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1
Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1
Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC
Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC
Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)
Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88
Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1
Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla
Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1
Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1
Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm
Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2
Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm
Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2
Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl
Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz
14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG
19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG
Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl
Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz
CMB-DFW EY F
FARE IS GONE
FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)
WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!
ex-CMB
Feb
Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia
Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21
May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
Jun
12 - lelee
Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas
Sep
Oct
Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4
Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
ex-AUH
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
27 - RICHKLHS
May
Jun
29 - yerffej201
Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)
Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff
ex-DFW
Jan
Feb
Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1
Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1
Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Oct
Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris
Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)
The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.
Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.
Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.
CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.
Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.
If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.
To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.
To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.
The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:
Other Letters:
Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.
Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612
Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612
Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt
Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt
Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1
Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1
Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC
Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC
Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)
Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88
Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1
Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla
Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1
Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1
Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm
Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2
Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm
Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2
Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl
Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz
14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG
19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG
Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl
Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz
CMB-DFW EY F
FARE IS GONE
FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)
WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!
ex-CMB
Feb
Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia
Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21
May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
Jun
12 - lelee
Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas
Sep
Oct
Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4
Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
ex-AUH
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
27 - RICHKLHS
May
Jun
29 - yerffej201
Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)
Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff
ex-DFW
Jan
Feb
Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1
Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1
Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Oct
Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris
Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)
[PREM FARE GONE] RGN First class comes back again!!!!
May 27, 2014, 1:34 pm
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,924
So does this cut both ways? Can I now, as a consumer, call the airline within 72 hours of realising the fare I bought was far too expensive, and I will unilaterally cancel it? If so, that's not a bad arrangement at all.
May 27, 2014, 2:01 pm
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: ZRH
Programs: LX HON Circle
Posts: 3,254
In my case, LX notified and canceled my ticket 264h after I booked it. That´s much more than the 72h they are referring to.
What else can we do now? I am not willing to accept this! 264h is more than a week! Do I have the right to cancel non refundable tickets 11 days later now? And how comes that the agency all of a sudden completey changes its minds?
What else can we do now? I am not willing to accept this! 264h is more than a week! Do I have the right to cancel non refundable tickets 11 days later now? And how comes that the agency all of a sudden completey changes its minds?
May 27, 2014, 2:09 pm
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: Enough
Posts: 961
In my case, LX notified and canceled my ticket 264h after I booked it. That´s much more than the 72h they are referring to.
What else can we do now? I am not willing to accept this! 264h is more than a week! Do I have the right to cancel non refundable tickets 11 days later now? And how comes that the agency all of a sudden completey changes its minds?
What else can we do now? I am not willing to accept this! 264h is more than a week! Do I have the right to cancel non refundable tickets 11 days later now? And how comes that the agency all of a sudden completey changes its minds?
May 27, 2014, 2:13 pm
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: ZRH
Programs: LX HON Circle
Posts: 3,254
May 27, 2014, 2:50 pm
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: ZRH, CGN
Programs: AA Gold, *G
Posts: 257
but then, maybe you never(rarely) pay more than $200 for any airfare in your life. if you can somehow convince the authorities about how rare and unplausible it was for you to pay $2000 (> 10 times!) for that fare, then you should have a case...
May 27, 2014, 2:53 pm
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: ZRH, CGN
Programs: AA Gold, *G
Posts: 257
In my case, LX notified and canceled my ticket 264h after I booked it. That´s much more than the 72h they are referring to.
What else can we do now? I am not willing to accept this! 264h is more than a week! Do I have the right to cancel non refundable tickets 11 days later now? And how comes that the agency all of a sudden completey changes its minds?
What else can we do now? I am not willing to accept this! 264h is more than a week! Do I have the right to cancel non refundable tickets 11 days later now? And how comes that the agency all of a sudden completey changes its minds?
Which is exploitable, you can't really prove when someone realizes something.
May 27, 2014, 3:30 pm
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hotlanta.
Programs: I've gone underground!
Posts: 4,604
Oh well... This thing got so drug out that it was going to be difficult to fly it as I had intended: as a vacation in Myanmar. After what I imagine Swiss spent on lawyers, I guess the only winners here are Davis. And maybe the airlines in the future.
May 27, 2014, 3:33 pm
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: ORD
Programs: UA MM, AA PPro
Posts: 1,480
Well...I think it would be hard to argue that pulling the fare does not equal "realizing the mistake."
May 27, 2014, 4:55 pm
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
Also, Keep in mind this only affects flights to/from Canada.
The question I have is, who convinced the CTA to do a 180 and did it involve money?
May 27, 2014, 5:00 pm
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 389
No surprise in the ruling regarding those of us who didn't travel, but the ruling for the people who flew and were downgraded on the LX segment is terrifying. (I'm in the former group, and not the latter, for what it's worth.) The money lines in the ruling are "The fact that they were allowed to travel in part does not make the contract of carriage a valid one" and then "Swiss offered, as a gesture of good will, all passengers who were en route, transportation in economy class, however, it was under no obligation to do so."
That seems bizarre and terrifying to me -- basically CTA is saying, sure some of the carriers were flying you, but you didn't have a contract and you had no protection while in transit. Crazy... I would have thought that if the non-LX ticketing carrier carried you, that indicated on its face that you had a contract with them (and who is Swiss to say that you didn't).
Hopefully any future instances are covered by the CTA's new "expectations for carriers related to erroneous fares", but are those just "expectations" or are they something that the CTA is actually going to enforce? (If they intend to enforce them, why not enforce them now?)
That seems bizarre and terrifying to me -- basically CTA is saying, sure some of the carriers were flying you, but you didn't have a contract and you had no protection while in transit. Crazy... I would have thought that if the non-LX ticketing carrier carried you, that indicated on its face that you had a contract with them (and who is Swiss to say that you didn't).
Hopefully any future instances are covered by the CTA's new "expectations for carriers related to erroneous fares", but are those just "expectations" or are they something that the CTA is actually going to enforce? (If they intend to enforce them, why not enforce them now?)
May 27, 2014, 5:12 pm
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,406
No surprise in the ruling regarding those of us who didn't travel, but the ruling for the people who flew and were downgraded on the LX segment is terrifying. (I'm in the former group, and not the latter, for what it's worth.) The money lines in the ruling are "The fact that they were allowed to travel in part does not make the contract of carriage a valid one" and then "Swiss offered, as a gesture of good will, all passengers who were en route, transportation in economy class, however, it was under no obligation to do so."
That seems bizarre and terrifying to me -- basically CTA is saying, sure some of the carriers were flying you, but you didn't have a contract and you had no protection while in transit. Crazy... I would have thought that if the non-LX ticketing carrier carried you, that indicated on its face that you had a contract with them (and who is Swiss to say that you didn't).
Hopefully any future instances are covered by the CTA's new "expectations for carriers related to erroneous fares", but are those just "expectations" or are they something that the CTA is actually going to enforce? (If they intend to enforce them, why not enforce them now?)
That seems bizarre and terrifying to me -- basically CTA is saying, sure some of the carriers were flying you, but you didn't have a contract and you had no protection while in transit. Crazy... I would have thought that if the non-LX ticketing carrier carried you, that indicated on its face that you had a contract with them (and who is Swiss to say that you didn't).
Hopefully any future instances are covered by the CTA's new "expectations for carriers related to erroneous fares", but are those just "expectations" or are they something that the CTA is actually going to enforce? (If they intend to enforce them, why not enforce them now?)
As for the 'expectation' - I imagine the CTA will be bound by the law of contract and mistake. Is there a ruling from a Canadian court which strictly limits notification to 72 hours in case of mistake?
Is the 72 hours (which sounds reasonable) on a passenger-by-passenger basis? I can potentially see a situation where an airline becomes aware of a mistake, but is not necessarily be able to identify all the individual passengers so quickly, even if using all reasonable resources to do so. Some passengers may refuse to answer their phone when an airline calls and try to claim they weren't notified.
May 27, 2014, 5:22 pm
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: TYO
Programs: AP 75k
Posts: 137
i'm going to try and live post this as much as possible for the insight and entertainment factor.
18:25 local time at CMB: went to transfer desk at CMB (this desk is the transfer handling agent for pretty much all airlines here). handed over our passports and the eticket itineraries i'd printed out from virtually there and gave them to the agent. we had been waiting in the lotus lounge and he gave us two cards that said "transit" and said he'd bring everything to us in lounge when it was ready (has to go downstairs to the etihad ticket office). i ask how long it will take - he says 10-15 minutes, his boss standing next to him says 30. in true price is right style i'm taking 31 minutes. came back to the lounge, grabbed a coke light, fired up this post. the flintstones is playing on the tv in here and there is a lack of outlets. i need to shower.
[snip]
- fwiw, i never received "the email" or any correspondence from PL or EY on anything.
any questions, lemme know.
18:25 local time at CMB: went to transfer desk at CMB (this desk is the transfer handling agent for pretty much all airlines here). handed over our passports and the eticket itineraries i'd printed out from virtually there and gave them to the agent. we had been waiting in the lotus lounge and he gave us two cards that said "transit" and said he'd bring everything to us in lounge when it was ready (has to go downstairs to the etihad ticket office). i ask how long it will take - he says 10-15 minutes, his boss standing next to him says 30. in true price is right style i'm taking 31 minutes. came back to the lounge, grabbed a coke light, fired up this post. the flintstones is playing on the tv in here and there is a lack of outlets. i need to shower.
[snip]
- fwiw, i never received "the email" or any correspondence from PL or EY on anything.
any questions, lemme know.
Doesn't sound too terrible at all.^
May 27, 2014, 5:26 pm
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the air
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,924
I am saddened that the CTA threw the consumer under the bus on this one. We have pretty strong consumer protection in Canada in general - it pains me to see this case get thrown under the bus for unknown reasons.
I'd be curious to see whether Quebec would sign up for this, a place where price displayed = price honoured irrespective of the merchant's "intent".
I'd be curious to see whether Quebec would sign up for this, a place where price displayed = price honoured irrespective of the merchant's "intent".