Jun 19, 2013, 9:45 pm

FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides

Last edit by: fti

People, please edit/use the wiki so same questions are not always asked.

The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.

Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.

Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.

CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.

Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.

If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.

To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.

To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.

The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:

Other Letters:

Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.

Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612

Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612

Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612

Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612

Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt

Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt

Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1

Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1

Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC

Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC

Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)

Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88

Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1

Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1

Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1

Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla

Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1

Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla

Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla

Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1

Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm

Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2

Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm

Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2

Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl

Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz

14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG

19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG

Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl

Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz

CMB-DFW EY F

FARE IS GONE

FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)

WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!

ex-CMB
Feb

Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia

Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21

May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)

Jun
12 - lelee

Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)

Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas

Sep

Oct

Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4

Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)

ex-AUH
Jan

Feb

Mar

Apr
27 - RICHKLHS

May

Jun
29 - yerffej201

Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao

Aug

Sep

Oct

Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)

Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff

ex-DFW
Jan

Feb

Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1

Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir

May

Jun

Jul

Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1

Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)

Oct

Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris

Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)

[PREM FARE GONE] RGN First class comes back again!!!!

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Feb 20, 2013, 3:59 am

#7531

onlysuites

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Sep 2003

Programs: BA Silver, EY Gold, HH Diamond, IHG Plat

Posts: 12,214

Quote:

Originally Posted by AA_EXP09

I doubt that they are saving any money at all.
When I booked the flight was F7 A7 so it's not that they gave a full F cabin and it would be foolish to oversell by so much.

So if the flight is going empty anyway it won't cost them much more then catering and other small bits to transport the pax.

Its all about "revenge" I guess from their side.

Feb 20, 2013, 4:01 am

#7532

AA_EXP09

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Join Date: Oct 2011

Location: Anywhere I need to be.

Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold, NEXUS, GE, ABTC/APEC, South Korea SES, eIACS, PP, Hyatt Diamond

Posts: 16,046

Quote:

Originally Posted by onlysuites

Personally I think it was more a lets teach these people a lesson that LX will not honor these fares in the future hence why they are downgrading at the airport and not before.

A very expensive lesson for them is that they can't get away with screwing consumers.
Taking away TA control of the ticket took it too far as if you have a good TA they know that LX needs that TA more than the TA needs LX.
It also prevents lots of details about the ticket from being seen to the consumer.

Feb 20, 2013, 4:02 am

#7533

AA_EXP09

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Oct 2011

Location: Anywhere I need to be.

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Posts: 16,046

Quote:

Originally Posted by onlysuites

So if the flight is going empty anyway it won't cost them much more then catering and other small bits to transport the pax.

Its all about "revenge" I guess from their side.

Especially if we had to pay for fuel.

Feb 20, 2013, 5:00 am

#7534

IAN-UK

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Aug 2000

Location: London

Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK

Posts: 17,050

Quote:

Originally Posted by onlysuites

Personally I think it was more a lets teach these people a lesson that LX will not honor these fares in the future hence why they are downgrading at the airport and not before.

Most certainly. But the airline might describe its position as educating consumers that they cannot take advantage of mistake fares of this nature. It is set to draw a very clear line in the sand.

I imagine they will be happy and willing to put whatever resources are required to defend their position, ensuring that some form of precedent is established.

If they are successful, the result could work against future fun-runs of this type. So that challenging the airline over something as trivial as a downgrade on a single sector of a crazily inexpensive ticket may work against all our interests. I imagine that other carriers, including those with up to now a generous attitude to mistake fares, will be` watching carefully what happens.

Of course, it could work in our interests, if LX loses or capitulates ^. So fingers are crossed..... But it is worth remembering that this IS a gamble, and there is more to lose than the principle of this single act of downgrade.

Feb 20, 2013, 5:24 am

#7535

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

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Quote:

Originally Posted by AA_EXP09

but who are they 'screwing'? They are not screwing their genuine 'full' fare paying F pax. They are screwing those who paid pennies by comparison. Taking this action is unlikely to affect their prized F customer base. And I would doubt any F pax would change their airline were they hear that a pax paying $800 had been denied carriage in F.

if you take out the hyperbole, Swiss is simply saying they don't believe the ticket is valid. They are exercising their legal avenues. passengers are free to do the same. It is then for a court (since regulatory agencies don't seem to want to touch this) to make a decision.

Whatever the outcome, either passengers or airlines will get a little better understanding of their chances should another mistake round come up. i would imagine airlines, collectively, are closely watching this.

Feb 20, 2013, 5:42 am

#7536

onlysuites

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Join Date: Sep 2003

Programs: BA Silver, EY Gold, HH Diamond, IHG Plat

Posts: 12,214

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF

but who are they 'screwing'? They are not screwing their genuine 'full' fare paying F pax.

I would disagree on this part. I am due to fly with my family in 2 months for a holiday. I have to book 9 business class tickets for all of us. Swiss was amongst the same in terms of price but I am booking EK. Sorry but I don't appreciate the way they have treated their customers. To them I may be just one customer but I have made sure they lost $21,000 revenue of me this time.

Custer care is the number 1 reason for repeat business. No company should ever forget that.

Feb 20, 2013, 5:48 am

#7537

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

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Location: AU

Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)

Posts: 14,409

Quote:

Originally Posted by onlysuites

Fair point!

Feb 20, 2013, 5:50 am

#7538

forumpersona999

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: DEN

Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Bonvoy Titanium, CX DM, SQ Gold

Posts: 1,607

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF

The two are not mutually exclusive. I fly quite a bit of paid F on LH, LX but observing their conduct in this matter I am looking at doing more OneWorld or TG, NZ from now on. I will avoid LH group whenever possible.

Feb 20, 2013, 6:08 am

#7539

onlysuites

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Sep 2003

Programs: BA Silver, EY Gold, HH Diamond, IHG Plat

Posts: 12,214

See to LX we may be free loaders but don't forget why we all found this site, what brings us back here. We all travel quite a bit for work/pleasure. No doubts there are some on here that will just come to get cheap deals but I can count off hand quite a few FT'ers who fly a silly amount of flights.

Feb 20, 2013, 6:22 pm

#7540

mkjr

Join Date: Oct 2007

Location: Left

Programs: FT

Posts: 7,285

Quote:

Originally Posted by onlysuites

Personally I think it was more a lets teach these people a lesson that LX will not honor these fares in the future hence why they are downgrading at the airport and not before.

But they could loose and screw other airlines in the process.

Feb 20, 2013, 10:23 pm

#7541

IAN-UK

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Join Date: Aug 2000

Location: London

Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK

Posts: 17,050

Quote:

Originally Posted by onlysuites

I imagine the airline feels its frequent flyer programme, and earned status in that programme, is`the way it rewards regular customers, not by sanctioning their use of mistake fares.

The wider game for the airline is revenue protection, and protection of the integrity of its premium product. In short, the carrier does not want to be seen as a soft touch, and its solid base of corporate, premium-class passengers are far more likely to applaud its current action than to feel sympathy for those taking advantage of mistake fares.

The loss of future revenue from those offended by a downgrade to economy on mistake fares, is likely to be miniscule. SWISS will weigh this loss against the potential brand damage and costs associated with a benign approach to mistake fares. The conclusion it comes to will guide its reaction to legal challenges.

Interesting times!

Feb 20, 2013, 11:28 pm

#7542

redtailshark

Suspended

Join Date: Nov 2003

Location: Tucson, AZ, USA. UA 1K, reluctant but * best in class * DL FO/MM. Former BA jumpseat rider and scourge of Dilbertian management and apologists. As LX might - and do - say: "....an experienced frequent flyer of international airlines"

Posts: 3,386

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAN-UK

Yes, there are lines in the sand.

For instance, if the LX itins had originated/terminated in the US, there is no doubt at all they would be enforced by DoT under the 399.88a prohibition. I possess numerous other such RGN tickets from Round 1 on other carriers and quite a few of them were subject to enforcement - as in, they were voided, and then reissued six weeks later out of the blue, clearly not at the behest of airline or OTA following DoT complaints. Those airlines no doubt didn't want to be seen as what you call "soft touches" - but neither did DoT. And the DoT - literally - rule in the US cases. Not the airlines.

But even without the US origin/termination, what's important is that LX is not the only actor that's drawing these lines in the sand. There are numerous channels of reddress.

For consumers, a line in the sand could be, the airline should not be able to decide at whim, after sale, that the fare is an "error."

For some people, the LX F case is a "clear error." But then, legally, so would your $1200 Y-class summer ticket from YUL to ZRH. LX could then void it the day prior to departure because loads show Y0B0 etc. and they expect $1600 walk-up now, and claim it was "an error." Identical legal basis. Now where is the reliability of contract?

The airline prices its own product and controls the placement in distribution channels. Errors are their problem - control them more effectively, by ensuring that whatever is published and sold, is enforceable.

Feb 20, 2013, 11:57 pm

#7543

laoshu

Join Date: Jul 2010

Posts: 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedBears

There are tricks to go around the lines, e.g. lions entrance.

Also, I am planning to be there at the opening at 9am.

SQ flight was a wonderful experience overall. I was the only passenger in Suites cabin.
My only issue was a chipped glass. I didn't see it and cut my lip a bit.

Thats fantastic - they hurt you! now you can do a lawsuit..

Feb 21, 2013, 3:13 am

#7544

MatthewLAX

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Los Angeles / Basel

Programs: UA 1K MM, AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist

Posts: 26,952

For the research paper I am writing, would someone whose itinerary was booked on LX and did not include transit via the USA either get in touch with me via PM or post their response from the DOT here? Thanks--I appreciate your help.

Feb 21, 2013, 4:00 am

#7545

nas6034

Join Date: Jul 2006

Posts: 1,352

LH group is pure crap. Had a cattle class tix booked with them but they canceled for whatever reason. Luckily I purchased it thru a TA so they rebooked me on another airline without paying anything extra. Oh and when I called LH customer service they were rude.