Jun 19, 2013, 9:45 pm

FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides

Last edit by: fti

People, please edit/use the wiki so same questions are not always asked.

The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.

Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.

Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.

CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.

Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.

If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.

To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.

To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.

The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:

Other Letters:

Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.

Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612

Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612

Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612

Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612

Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt

Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt

Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1

Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1

Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC

Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC

Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)

Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88

Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1

Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1

Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1

Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla

Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1

Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla

Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla

Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1

Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm

Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2

Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm

Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2

Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl

Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz

14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG

19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG

Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl

Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz

CMB-DFW EY F

FARE IS GONE

FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)

WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!

ex-CMB
Feb

Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia

Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21

May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)

Jun
12 - lelee

Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)

Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas

Sep

Oct

Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4

Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)

ex-AUH
Jan

Feb

Mar

Apr
27 - RICHKLHS

May

Jun
29 - yerffej201

Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao

Aug

Sep

Oct

Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)

Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff

ex-DFW
Jan

Feb

Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1

Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir

May

Jun

Jul

Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1

Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)

Oct

Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris

Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)

[PREM FARE GONE] RGN First class comes back again!!!!

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Oct 30, 2012, 7:47 pm

#4771

MKBshaw

Join Date: Aug 2012

Location: DPS, YYJ

Programs: QF

Posts: 192

Well, it looks like its come to this... see you in court LX.

If you have a dispute (for example, with a service provider, tradesperson, merchant or small business) that you are unable to resolve, a quick, economical solution is available in the form of a legal action in the Small Claims1 Division of the Court of Québec, commonly referred to as “small claims court”.

The Small Claims Division hears cases involving sums of money, or the cancellation or termination of a contract, when the amount in dispute does not exceed $7,000. People who appear before the Small Claims Division represent themselves, without a lawyer.

http://www.justice.gouv.qc.ca/englis.../creance-a.htm

Oct 30, 2012, 7:56 pm

#4772

Pseudo Nim

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: In the air

Programs: Occasional RTW club

Posts: 6,932

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKBshaw

it also takes about a year to be heard. just a FYI.

Oct 30, 2012, 8:09 pm

#4773

MKBshaw

Join Date: Aug 2012

Location: DPS, YYJ

Programs: QF

Posts: 192

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim

it also takes about a year to be heard. just a FYI.

All good - don't really care about the money, just want to make it as painful as possible for LX. Maybe we'll get a round 4 and I can pick up a nice F class court positioning flight on the cheap... I live in China.

Oct 30, 2012, 8:14 pm

#4774

pinoysojourner

Join Date: Jul 2011

Location: Oakland, CA

Posts: 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinoysojourner

Hi,

I am flying tonight for my position flight to catch my SQ issued RGN-YUL ticket

NOV 4 RGN-KUL-SIN MH
NOV 5 SIN-LHR SQ
NOV 6 LHR-MIA IB (on BA metal)
NOV 6 MIA-YUL AA

flights were fine last night, this morning like Peter_Ng the BA flight has disappeared and the remaining sectors are downgraded on TL!

They are showing as premium cabin still on SQ and Check My Trip, minus the RGN-KUL for some reason.

I am frustrated and trying to figure if I should still leave tonight! Advice folks?
Will call TL & SQ ...

So, here's the scoop:

They said BA cancelled the BA flight early this morning while all the other segments remained in tact but downgraded (although MH kept telling me to sort out my ticket with TL & SQ, because the "invalid fare" prompt kept popping up) After 3 long phone calls with TL (and SQ & MH), they (TL) were able to reinstate my orig. itinerary but needed to wait on BA to confirm it again in the next 12 hours.

The original segments- inc. the IB (operated by BA) flight from LHR-MIA are now all appearing on TL, BA, and SQ, and all the segments are back on premium cabins.

BA better not be as naughty as they have been- sneakily canceling my flight without notice - while I could have theoretically been in Asia and have already paid for a positioning flight (Thank God I used miles and have 1k Status- I moved my positioning flight from tonight to tomorrow) ... I have doubts.

But I really hope this resolves, or else I would be EXTREMELY mad specifically at BA (at least LX informed me & and in due time) .. This just feels UNJUST and OPPRESSIVE.

Oct 30, 2012, 8:15 pm

#4775

MKE-MR

Join Date: Mar 2003

Location: Here today gone tomorrow

Programs: *G, ow Saph

Posts: 2,865

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim

Except ... there is no Y on that flight

(it's an ANA BusinessJet)

It's been mentioned before, but there is actually a config of the BusinessJet with a small economy section in the back.

Oct 30, 2012, 8:18 pm

#4776

Pseudo Nim

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: In the air

Programs: Occasional RTW club

Posts: 6,932

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKE-MR

It's been mentioned before, but there is actually a config of the BusinessJet with a small economy section in the back.

you're right. I forgot about the secretary/poor cousin section.

Oct 30, 2012, 8:22 pm

#4777

cmdsea

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Sunny Singapore

Programs: TG*G, SQ, QF

Posts: 912

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKE-MR

It's been mentioned before, but there is actually a config of the BusinessJet with a small economy section in the back.

Whilst the J / Y config does exist, the seat map that comes up for RGN-NRT is the all J version. At least for my dates...

Oct 30, 2012, 8:38 pm

#4778

typical

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Nov 2005

Programs: BA Gold, A3 Gold, FB Gold, Bonvoy Titanium / LTP, Accor Plat

Posts: 14,010

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinoysojourner

They said BA cancelled the BA flight early this morning

It's baffling, but this is what I was told by XP too: that BA had cancelled the flights I was due to fly on.

Once XP realised the flights were still running, they also reissued the ticket.

Next move is BA's...

Oct 30, 2012, 8:38 pm

#4779

pathensley

Join Date: Sep 2012

Location: Alaska

Programs: AA EP, AS/EY/AV G

Posts: 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by crankychick

Booked 3 sets of tickets in Round 3. I am now on strike 2...

First, LX tickets cancelled, did not touch US.

Second, August 2013, booked through TL.com, US ticket #, segments cancelled and remaining segments downgraded to economy. CA F PEK-RGN, CA F (LH codeshare A380) PEK-FRA, US C FRA-PHL, US F PHL-YUL.

US segments cancelled on US.com and missing from TL.com. The CA flights have been downgraded to Economy.

Third set is still good.

I haven't seen any reports on CA/US cancelling/downgrading.

I have the same route/carriers end of mar./early april, except no LH codeshare (CA 747 PEK-FRA), & so far still intact.

Last edited by pathensley; Oct 30, 2012 at 9:25 pm

Oct 30, 2012, 8:43 pm

#4780

redtailshark

Suspended

Join Date: Nov 2003

Location: Tucson, AZ, USA. UA 1K, reluctant but * best in class * DL FO/MM. Former BA jumpseat rider and scourge of Dilbertian management and apologists. As LX might - and do - say: "....an experienced frequent flyer of international airlines"

Posts: 3,386

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKBshaw

I agree. Both BA and LX have shown supreme bad faith and a strong measure of contempt for consumers and the judicial systems.

It's worth noting that BA aren't necessarily in cast-iron big-guy wins mode.

A number of people were successful with their DEL small claims filings and these cases are more egregious - violation of precedent, F class and not Y, longer timeframe between ticketing and unilateral voiding, over a month in my BA case, and again for BA, complete lack of communication to the consumer about their action.

OK, so, if their revenue-damage calculus is that it's cheaper to lose a few SC than to honor all purchased itins, we should coordinate to ensure that the ultimate outcome makes them think again before they do this.

I agree that multiple filings in different jurisdictions are more difficult for them to handle and that would be better. For me, there seem to be several options and I'm doing some research now. I also want to present the strongest filing possible so I'm going to talk offline with those who were successful in their DEL filings and do some research with the courts concerned. I want to see the previous successful filings for one thing.

For those who don't have travel scheduled until next summer, we have plenty of time to file and process. BA have declared war on the consumers, so be it, we fight back. With patience and a steady hand, and commitment, we may be able to achieve fair restitution for their underhand bad faith.

BA were whipped by Mirko Fischer, and by numerous DEL plaintiffs. I'm somewhat surprised after their recent history that they think this is wise, but it's classically Dilbertian.

Even better, as you well know, no enemy incites my resolve to fight more than BA management. LX's actions are despicable too, but at least they had the brass neck to actually email everyone and state their cancellation reason. They need to be fought, too, but BA's underhand sneakiness is in a league below and needs to be dealt with firmly.

I almost don't want DoT to enforce BA if there's a good chance of obtaining a settlement via small claims actions. I want to defeat the BA representatives who are compelled to show up.

Oct 30, 2012, 8:43 pm

#4781

Deltahater

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: SAT

Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR

Posts: 5,903

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOLTATIO

Before you put on your game uniform, consider that both US and BA waited quite a while, and possibly till after the DOT responded to LX. So maybe the DOT is not enforcing the tickets with LX or the fine that they are imposing is small enough that the airlines are willing to pay them?

Even if the DOT does not act or the fine is small, it does not mean that LX, and apparently BA, did not violate state or federal laws here in the USA. in my opinion, IANAL, LX violated contract law, independent of DOT rules. I think if LX faces just 10 of these county court lawsuits across the USA, they will fold like a cheap hooker in Rangoon.

Last edited by Deltahater; Oct 30, 2012 at 8:50 pm

Oct 30, 2012, 9:03 pm

#4782

pinoysojourner

Join Date: Jul 2011

Location: Oakland, CA

Posts: 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by typical

So what did they tell you exactly? Is your ticket confirmed then?
TL told me to call back after 12 hours so they can hear a response from NA

Oct 30, 2012, 9:13 pm

#4783

braffy

Join Date: Feb 2011

Location: BOS

Programs: AS MVPG75k

Posts: 353

Quote:

Originally Posted by pathensley

I have the same route/carriers end of mar./early april, except no LH codeshare PEK-FRA (CA 747), & so far still intact.

Out of curiosity, who is the plating carrier for your ticket?

Oct 30, 2012, 9:18 pm

#4784

pathensley

Join Date: Sep 2012

Location: Alaska

Programs: AA EP, AS/EY/AV G

Posts: 62

I assume US since it's an 037 ticket? fwiw, I also have a DL ticket in aug, still intact so far.

Last edited by pathensley; Oct 30, 2012 at 9:27 pm

Oct 30, 2012, 9:40 pm

#4785

lewende

Join Date: Aug 2011

Location: 10^7 mm from Ȱ

Programs: Hyatt D/HHonors D/ SPG P/ Marriott P/ IHG P/ UA 1K/ AA EXP/ DL D

Posts: 1,976

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinoysojourner

So what did they tell you exactly? Is your ticket confirmed then?
TL told me to call back after 12 hours so they can hear a response from NA

So what's your game plan, if when you call back TL tells you BA still doesn't confirm your TATL leg?

Will you still resume your positioning flight, or push back for another 24 hours?