Jun 19, 2013, 9:45 pm

FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides

Last edit by: fti

People, please edit/use the wiki so same questions are not always asked.

The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.

Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.

Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.

CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.

Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.

If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.

To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.

To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.

The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:

Other Letters:

Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.

Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612

Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612

Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612

Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612

Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt

Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt

Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1

Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1

Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC

Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC

Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)

Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88

Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1

Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1

Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1

Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla

Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1

Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla

Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla

Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1

Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm

Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2

Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm

Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2

Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl

Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz

14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG

19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG

Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl

Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz

CMB-DFW EY F

FARE IS GONE

FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)

WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!

ex-CMB
Feb

Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia

Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21

May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)

Jun
12 - lelee

Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)

Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas

Sep

Oct

Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4

Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)

ex-AUH
Jan

Feb

Mar

Apr
27 - RICHKLHS

May

Jun
29 - yerffej201

Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao

Aug

Sep

Oct

Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)

Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff

ex-DFW
Jan

Feb

Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1

Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir

May

Jun

Jul

Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1

Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)

Oct

Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris

Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)

[PREM FARE GONE] RGN First class comes back again!!!!

Reply Subscribe

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

Nov 13, 2012, 4:03 am

#5521

Wozza2404

Join Date: Mar 2012

Location: BHX

Programs: BA GGL CCR GfL, SQ Gold, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond, Marriott Plat, Cafe Nero Loyalty Card (7 Stamps)

Posts: 7,383

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazz81

Sorry but it's not that simple. The ticket is issued in First. If they wish to cancel this segment and rebook it into economy they can do this now!

I'd agree with that.

By that logic, surely BA can turn around next week when I arrive at the gate and say my sale fare F ticket was mispriced, and I can either give them another £5000 or fly in Y.

Just because the airlines are calling this an "invalid fare" in no way means it is one.

Nov 13, 2012, 4:21 am

#5522

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Mar 2001

Location: AU

Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)

Posts: 14,412

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wozza2404

My argument would be that they have no right to deny me boarding when I have already commenced travel. Their issue is with the airline whose stock the ticket is on. I'm the innocent party.

I'd have made a proper nuisance of myself.

I'd be very surprised if a small claims court wouldn't agree with me.

Innocent party yes. Denied boarding no, just not in the class you want. If you bought a goupon deal for a service but groupon failed to pay the merchant, and the merchant refused to give you the goods, would you blame the merchant or groupon? Would you expect the merchant to still give you the items even though they hadn't been paid for them?

I can see both arguments here.

contract breaches are often not fair. but they happen all the time. unfortunately while we have good consumer protection laws, sometimes they aren't enough and we still have to go to court.

This feels more like an SQ issue than LX issue (in this case - as opposed to the previous ones where it was LX cancelling their tickets)

Nov 13, 2012, 4:29 am

#5523

Aussie_flyer

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Melbourne/Bangkok

Programs: A3*G, QF PLATINUM, BA GOLD, VA GOLD, HH DIAMOND

Posts: 2,245

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF

you seem to have missed the point, the passenger who is STILL IN FRANKFURT, was DENIED BOARDING. He was not allowed on the flight to ZRH, he then missed the connection. INVOLUNTARY DENIED BOARDING. The airline has subsequently offered an economy class ticket, but this does not mean they still do not owe the passenger 600 EURO compensation, the compensation is in ADDITION to getting the passenger to the destination as ticketed.

How on earth is this an SQ issue? SQ have done everything right, honoured the ticket. LX has control over their segment status, if they wished to cancel it they can do so. LX has the choice to do something about this in advance and they have chosen NOT to. It is simply unacceptable to allow the passenger to arrive in Zurich (or FRA) after flying 20 odd hours to simply be told oh no we aren't allowing you to continue on this ticket....

Nov 13, 2012, 4:40 am

#5524

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Mar 2001

Location: AU

Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)

Posts: 14,412

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazz81

ok. Who pays LX? SQ? I thought as SQ is the plating carrier if they choose to fly the pax for free (or close to free) then so be it. But should LX have to wear it if SQ decides to plate, and decides to honour? Or have I misunderstood that?

Nov 13, 2012, 4:43 am

#5525

bangkokiscool

Join Date: Apr 2006

Posts: 1,259

Quote:

Originally Posted by markus_see

Reporting : SQ (618) ticket. RGN-KUL-SIN-FRA-ZRH-YUL

Everything went well except with Swiss.
MH : nothing said... issued boarding pass until SIN ... checked luggage until SIN
SQ : nothing said...only issued SQ boarding pass; checked luggage until YUL
LX : at FRA... i can get LH (LX codeshare to ZRH) boarding pass to ZRH but at time of boarding....denied me boarding.... They send internal message asked me go to ticketing office. Miss my flight to ZRH. Swiss agent said the usual bla bla bla "invalid fare, we cannot allow u to fly First with this fare". Told them no notification... whatsoever....etc etc... Force me to either pay full fare etc... and as "good will" they will let me fly economy the next day (since i miss the flight). Ask for compensation... etc... citing the EC Rules ... Swiss agent at FRA very unhelpful... said do not apply to my case. Ask me to sue travelocity instead since my contract is with them. Swiss very stubborn. Said that even MH n SQ allowed me to fly... Swiss will not even if its not their ticket.
.

This is exactly what happened to my relative in early October. It appears SQ tickets are OK but LX will refuse carriage. My relative was denied at the gate even with BP in hand. The only difference is his flight was ZRH to ORD and LX relented after being quoted DOT rules.

OP, I am very sorry this happened to you. I had to really take a deep breath to calm myself when I read your note. I find LX's actions to another carriers ticket, in the middle of a trip, resulting in IDB, to be incomprehensible. Even though your ticket does not have DOT protection, I hope you will file with CTA.

Finally, I must say I disagree strongly with the idea that LX is acting reasonably and OP should be happy just because he/she got to fly in SQ F. Then I remembered that it is possible in FT to click on a user name and then click ignore (last option on the menu), and the all of a sudden this thread is readable again. Cool.

Nov 13, 2012, 4:49 am

#5526

dandandan

Join Date: May 2012

Programs: DJ Plat, HH Diam, AB Gold, EY Gold, CX Silver, Europcar PE

Posts: 89

bangkokiscool, can you please tell me how to do this? can't seem to figure it out, think it will be the same person I want to ignore that you did!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangkokiscool

Then I remembered that it is possible in FT to click on a user name and then click ignore (last option on the menu), and the all of a sudden this thread is readable again. Cool.

Nov 13, 2012, 4:50 am

#5527

*A Flyer

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: CBR

Programs: QF WP, AC*G

Posts: 1,223

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF

Yes, LX should eat it. They signed an interline agreement with SQ allowing them to plate LX segments according to a contracted set of rules. Their decision that they no longer find those terms acceptable should be taken up with SQ as the plating carrier not the passenger. Alternatively, if LX genuinely believe that the travel agency ticketed an invalid fare, they should issue a debit memo to the TA as is the correct practice. There is no case to be made for taking out their displeasure on the passenger.

Nov 13, 2012, 4:50 am

#5528

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Mar 2001

Location: AU

Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)

Posts: 14,412

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangkokiscool

Finally, I must say I disagree strongly with the idea that LX is acting reasonably and OP should be happy just because he/she got to fly in SQ F. Then I remembered that it is possible in FT to click on a user name and then click ignore (last option on the menu), and the all of a sudden this thread is readable again. Cool.

no one (well not me) has said that LX is acting reasonably... just trying to get an understanding of their thinking. The better you understand the enemy the less they can harm you.

Simply saying 'Swiss - you are behaving badly' doesn't actually help anyone (except give moral support). Understanding why Swiss is doing what they are doing, then working out how to fight that would help people.

Less of the hyperbole and more things we could actually action would be helpful. (For example 'swiss has left the passenger stranded and this is bad' doesn't help the next person. Obviously Swiss doesn't care. What we need is something concrete rather than just emotion.)

'Swiss you are immoral' really doesn't seem to have produced any results does it?

Nov 13, 2012, 4:52 am

#5529

Aussie_flyer

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Melbourne/Bangkok

Programs: A3*G, QF PLATINUM, BA GOLD, VA GOLD, HH DIAMOND

Posts: 2,245

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF

If LX do not want to 'wear it' then they must act IN ADVANCE. They clearly know about it and they have CHOSEN to allow the passengers to arrive at the gate before telling them no. They do not have to take this path, they can cancel the segment now triggering automatic notification to the travel agent that a sector has been canceled.

LX need to be doing this in advance and they should not be simply denying passengers at the gate and throwing plans into chaos. I hope that people choose to take them on for this and are compensated accordingly.

Nov 13, 2012, 5:06 am

#5530

Aussie_flyer

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Melbourne/Bangkok

Programs: A3*G, QF PLATINUM, BA GOLD, VA GOLD, HH DIAMOND

Posts: 2,245

Quote:

Originally Posted by LHR/MEL/Europe FF

Less of the hyperbole and more things we could actually action would be helpful. (For example 'swiss has left the passenger stranded and this is bad' doesn't help the next person. Obviously Swiss doesn't care. What we need is something concrete rather than just emotion.)

'Swiss you are immoral' really doesn't seem to have produced any results does it?

This post is hilarious considering your previous post pretty much stating the passenger should be happy they got as far as Europe on suites, 'some give and some take' was about all you had to say.

Nov 13, 2012, 5:14 am

#5531

bangkokiscool

Join Date: Apr 2006

Posts: 1,259

Quote:

Originally Posted by dandandan

bangkokiscool, can you please tell me how to do this? can't seem to figure it out, think it will be the same person I want to ignore that you did!

While logged in and reading a post that makes your BP jump a little (and not in a nice way) click on the username in the left column, the name of the person who posted. From the drop down menu click the last option ( add user to ignore list). Done. Blood pressure rescued.

Nov 13, 2012, 5:20 am

#5532

dandandan

Join Date: May 2012

Programs: DJ Plat, HH Diam, AB Gold, EY Gold, CX Silver, Europcar PE

Posts: 89

Awesome thanks, no more having to read what that person who is always negative or argues against what everyone else says.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangkokiscool

Nov 13, 2012, 5:24 am

#5533

*A Flyer

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: CBR

Programs: QF WP, AC*G

Posts: 1,223

Quote:

Originally Posted by dandandan

Awesome thanks, no more having to read what that person who is always negative or argues against what everyone else says.

Blocking out what you don't want to hear can be a very, very dangerous strategy. You are best to take in all the views including the dissenters and form an opinion based on all of it.

Nov 13, 2012, 5:27 am

#5534

Pseudo Nim

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: In the air

Programs: Occasional RTW club

Posts: 6,932

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangkokiscool

Quote:

Originally Posted by dandandan

Awesome thanks, no more having to read what that person who is always negative or argues against what everyone else says.

Although I must say that I do tend to agree, I also feel that while his posts are, more than often, half anathema to the collective FT psyche, I also feel that a number of them point out valid points that we, in our collective circlejerk of airline hate, tend to ignore. So although I have considered posting a "you REALLY aren't making any friends on this thread" a number of times, I have just as many a time pulled back and thought "hrm, even though I hate to, that other point actually makes sense and therefore I must agree". Meh. Easier to just keep scrolling

Nov 13, 2012, 5:27 am

#5535

onlysuites

FlyerTalk Evangelist

Join Date: Sep 2003

Programs: BA Silver, EY Gold, HH Diamond, IHG Plat

Posts: 12,220

Shocked at what LX have done.....