Jun 19, 2013, 9:45 pm
Last edit by: fti
People, please edit/use the wiki so same questions are not always asked.
The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.
Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.
Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.
CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.
Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.
If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.
To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.
To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.
The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:
Other Letters:
Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.
Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612
Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612
Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt
Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt
Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1
Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1
Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC
Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC
Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)
Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88
Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1
Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla
Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1
Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1
Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm
Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2
Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm
Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2
Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl
Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz
14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG
19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG
Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl
Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz
CMB-DFW EY F
FARE IS GONE
FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)
WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!
ex-CMB
Feb
Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia
Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21
May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
Jun
12 - lelee
Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas
Sep
Oct
Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4
Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
ex-AUH
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
27 - RICHKLHS
May
Jun
29 - yerffej201
Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)
Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff
ex-DFW
Jan
Feb
Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1
Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1
Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Oct
Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris
Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)
The current CTA decision on the Yangon deal is only for tickets canceled by SWISS Airlines for the seven merged complaints/companions and tickets canceled by Jet Airways for one complainant and companions
- It's not about other carriers because each carrier submits different tariffs.
- If you are not one of the complainants or their companions above who were mentioned in the respective cases, you need to submit a case yourself for hearing.
- There's currently one person who is on Iberia for CTA decision, one can either wait for results or submit a complaint to CTA.
Result of the current case for LX in brief is:
- CTA found 5(F) in the tariff used to be unclear for canceling tickets on erroneously quoted fares.
- 5(F) is unjust and unreasonable and must be revised or taken down by July 9, 2013 (or SWISS can appeal by then)
- SWISS did not use its tariff correctly to cancel the tickets.
- SWISS must compensate one complainant's First Class ticket and any related expenses by July 18, 2013 provided with evidence.
- SWISS must transport other complainants (and their companions) in the original price charged with same booking class and routing by June 18, 2014.
Result of the current case for 9W in brief is:
- Tariff on file had no clauses for "erroneous fares" and was updated subsequently, which means it is not relevant to this event
- Therefore, 9W is to reinstate the tickets with a 1-year validity for transport between the same points and the same booking class.
CTA official news can be read here for general overview of the case.
Actual CTA case review can be found here for reference should you wish to file a complaint.
If you have a similar case that's with SWISS, you need to file with CTA to get a result through informal process first before it gets to formal process. The entire procedure can take up to 3 months for each and the result may not be same cause it's case-by-base and the reviewer of the case can be different.
To file an informal complaint with CTA, see here. Click through all of the pages to get to the online form for the informal complaint. Or click here.
To file a formal complaint after informal complaint has been closed, see here. Continue on to the next page to see the address or email address for the formal complaint.
The July 17th and 18th responses from LX can be found here:
Other Letters:
Feel free to add dates, flights, etc., in order to plan DOs, etc.
Aug 4: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 5: ICN-SFO (UA892)
Jason8612
Aug 7: SFO-ICN (UA893)
Jason8612
Aug 11: ICN-NRT-ORD (UA78, UA882)
Jason8612
Aug 14: BOS-IAD-NRT-ICN (UA285, UA803, UA79)
Deltspygt
Aug 19: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA352)
Deltspygt
Oct 1: UA433-UA893
JeredF +1
Oct 8: UA892-UA242
JeredF +1
Oct 9: BOS-SFO-ICN (UA433, UA893)
BigJC
Oct 13: ICN-NRT-ORD-BOS (UA78, UA882, UA744)
BigJC
Oct 21: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
Sterndogg +1
flyerdude88 (SFO - ICN portion only)
Oct 23: ICN - SFO UA 892
flyerdude88
Oct 27: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-BOS UA286
Sterndogg +1
Nov 05: BOS-ORD UA521, ORD-NRT UA881
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 11: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-IAD UA727
kokonutz, I012609, BingoSF +1
Nov 26: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-NRT UA837, NRT-ICN UA79
thepla
Nov 27: BOS-ORD-NRT-ICN (UA501, UA881, UA196)
BigJC+1
Nov 29: Planning 2 days in TPE, been to ICN
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-ORD UA698, ORD-BOS UA961
thepla
Dec 1: ICN-NRT-IAD-BOS (UA78, UA804, UA822)
BigJC+1
Dec 15: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
songzm
Dec 25: BOS-IAD UA285, IAD-NRT UA803, NRT-ICN UA79
Dinoscool3 +2
Dec 30: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA444
songzm
Dec 31: ICN-SFO UA892, SFO-BOS UA770
Dinoscool3 +2
Jan 11: BOS-SFO UA1523, Jan 12: SFO-ICN UA893
margarita girl
Jan 12: BOS-SFO UA433, SFO-ICN UA893
Zebranz
14 Jan: BOS-SFO UA433 to SFO-ICN UA893
ORDOGG
19 Jan: ICN-SFO UA892 to SFO-ORD UA698 to ORD-BOS UA961
ORDOGG
Jan 22: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA500
margarita girl
Feb 5: ICN-SFO UA892 SFO-BOS UA242
Zebranz
CMB-DFW EY F
FARE IS GONE
FARE RULES (thanks to SQ421)
FRTLK Fare Rules (RT)
FOWLK Fare Rules (OW)
WHEN ARE YOU FLYING?
Feel free to add any additional cities you're leaving from!
Please slot yourselves in!!!
ex-CMB
Feb
Mar
8 - Darmajaya
12 - Thaidai
22 - Deadinabsentia
Apr
21 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
26 - tahsir21
May
28 - Upperdeck744
29 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
Jun
12 - lelee
Jul
7 - HansGolden +6
8 - arcticbull + 1
11 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: SIN-CMB, DFW-MCI)
25 - Tycosiao
30 - bonsaisai's friend (positioning flights: MCI-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Aug
17 - DC777Fan
26 - Yi Yang
31 - dcas
Sep
Oct
Nov
8 - harryhv
29 - stephem+4
Dec
6 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. roastpuff , JFKEZE (UL Code-share)
7 - DWFI
10 - jlisi984 + dad (CMB-AUH-DFW)
21 - bonsaisai (positioning flights SIN-CMB, DFW-ORD)
ex-AUH
Jan
Feb
Mar
Apr
27 - RICHKLHS
May
Jun
29 - yerffej201
Jul
9 - HansGolden +6
27 - Tycosiao
Aug
Sep
Oct
Nov
30 - stephem+4 (to JFK)
Dec
7 - JFKEZE, DWFI [EY161 nonstop]
9 - roastpuff and (soon) Mrs. Roastpuff
ex-DFW
Jan
Feb
Mar
14 - Thaidai
15 - zainman +1
Apr
25 - SQ421, penegal, jozdemir
May
Jun
Jul
Aug
22 - arcticbull + 1
Sep
22 - bonsaisai (positioning flights ORD-DFW, CMB-SIN)
Oct
Nov
19 - harryhv->Paris
Dec
19 - Yi Yang, jona970318
24 - DWFI (EY160 nonstop)
26 - HansGolden +6 (CDG), LwoodY2K (AUH)
[PREM FARE GONE] RGN First class comes back again!!!!
Oct 9, 2012, 5:05 pm
#3272
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: AS MVP, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 803
Too late for you, but maybe something like this if anyone else gets a call:
"It is illegal to cancel my ticket and it is illegal to raise the price. If you force me to choose between these two unacceptable 'options', then I insist that you inform me of my options in writing so I can consult with my attorney before I give you a response."
Nothing in this can be construed as acceptance or a request from you; you will either get documentation you need for legal action, or you will scare the travel agency enough to push back on the airline. The fact that their follow-up indicated, "at your request" tells me that they know what they are doing is highly questionable, and they are trying to build a defense or throw up barriers to a lawsuit. Play hardball.
"It is illegal to cancel my ticket and it is illegal to raise the price. If you force me to choose between these two unacceptable 'options', then I insist that you inform me of my options in writing so I can consult with my attorney before I give you a response."
Nothing in this can be construed as acceptance or a request from you; you will either get documentation you need for legal action, or you will scare the travel agency enough to push back on the airline. The fact that their follow-up indicated, "at your request" tells me that they know what they are doing is highly questionable, and they are trying to build a defense or throw up barriers to a lawsuit. Play hardball.
Oct 9, 2012, 5:21 pm
#3273
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 96
Travelocity - Executive Offices
11603 Crosswinds Way, Suite 125
San Antonio, TX 78233
ph. 570-706-2528
fax. 210-247-9489[/QUOTE]
They are 25 mins away from my office. (everything is 25 mins or less in San Antonio). If you don't get a resolution, I can stop by and talk to TL if you like
11603 Crosswinds Way, Suite 125
San Antonio, TX 78233
ph. 570-706-2528
fax. 210-247-9489[/QUOTE]
They are 25 mins away from my office. (everything is 25 mins or less in San Antonio). If you don't get a resolution, I can stop by and talk to TL if you like
Oct 9, 2012, 5:24 pm
#3274
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,903
[/QUOTE]Let me know when you go and I'll bring the champagne and tequila. Together we can butter her up and get her to reinstate all tickets
Oct 9, 2012, 5:25 pm
#3275
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: 10^7 mm from Ȱ
Programs: Hyatt D/HHonors D/ SPG P/ Marriott P/ IHG P/ UA 1K/ AA EXP/ DL D
Posts: 1,976
My take (speculation) for this new development is:
(1) People whose itins don't touch US soil are out of luck;
(2) It's somewhat likely that people's itins touching US soil may be reinstated, but I won't expect a large scale reinstatement like round 1;
(3) It looks like DoT is encouraging OTA to work out solutions to appease customers, instead of stepping up dictating airlines/OTA to reinstate tickets like round 1. As such, even if (2) turns out to be the case, OTA may only re-book those customers on Y cabin but not premium cabins (again, pure speculation). This way many FTers may be discouraged from jumping on now downgraded RGN itins and future "speculative booking" if such RGN fares mushroom again.
Nonetheless, this new development sends a positive message to FTers in terms of deterring airlines' (MH/SQ/IB/AA/DL) potential follow suit to LX. If further development turns out to be in favor of FTers, those who still have valid tickets may rest assured the remaining round 3 tickets will be honored, although not in an overt fashion...
Oct 9, 2012, 5:27 pm
#3276
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: DCA
Programs: US Silver, UA Plat, HHonors Diamond, SPG Gold
Posts: 212
I got the feeling DOT interacted directly with KE in Round 1 and KE prompted Vayama to reinstate. Now it sounds like Swiss is directly canceling, but the DOT is working through Travelocity?
Oct 9, 2012, 5:35 pm
#3277
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CBR
Programs: QF WP, AC*G
Posts: 1,223
No, DOT is working through Travelocity where the ticket didn't touch the US but it was booked through a US travel agent. As of yet, no one has had a response from the DOT about cases where the ticket touches the US.
Oct 9, 2012, 5:38 pm
#3278
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: So Cal
Programs: UA Gold/0.756MM, WN ALP, Hyatt Diamond, MR Gold, Hertz PC, National Exec, Avis PC,AA Gold
Posts: 5,568
Got an email from TL as well. Same as noted above, but again, only for one itinerary, not both. Also CC'd to someone at DOT. I did attach my TL confirmation emails to the DOT complaints, but clearly stated that LX sent me the cancellation email.
ALSO, can't pull up my reservations on TL any more. The buttons are there, but when clicked, they give "We are unable to retrieve the requested Trip ID xxxxxxxxx. This trip has been cancelled". Up until yesterday I could click on it and still see my neutered reservation.
Tickets were booked thru TL and went thru JFK
Edit:
Even better, now I don't have the buttons any more either. "You currently have no upcoming trips."
ALSO, can't pull up my reservations on TL any more. The buttons are there, but when clicked, they give "We are unable to retrieve the requested Trip ID xxxxxxxxx. This trip has been cancelled". Up until yesterday I could click on it and still see my neutered reservation.
Tickets were booked thru TL and went thru JFK
Edit:
Even better, now I don't have the buttons any more either. "You currently have no upcoming trips."
Oct 9, 2012, 5:39 pm
#3279
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: 10^7 mm from Ȱ
Programs: Hyatt D/HHonors D/ SPG P/ Marriott P/ IHG P/ UA 1K/ AA EXP/ DL D
Posts: 1,976
Where did you get this update? Numerous posts in this thread have reported DoT won't do anything to itins don't touch US, no matter they are booked through a US OTA or not.
Oct 9, 2012, 5:47 pm
#3281
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CBR
Programs: QF WP, AC*G
Posts: 1,223
Oct 9, 2012, 5:48 pm
#3282
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Seattle
Programs: AS MVPG 75K
Posts: 2,574
I just got this email from CTA (RGN-NRT-ZRH-YUL, booked on TL USA)
------------------
Dear Mr. Techmarauder:
This will acknowledge receipt of your complaint filed with the Canadian Transportation Agency on October 4, 2012. Your Case Number is 12-XXXXX. Please refer to it any time you contact the Agency about this complaint.
My review of your complaint indicates that the carrier has not been given the opportunity to address in writing the issues that you have raised. If it appears that a carrier has not had the opportunity to respond to a written complaint, the Agency's role will be limited to forwarding a copy of the complaint to the carrier who will be asked to respond directly to the complainant.
Accordingly, with this letter I am forwarding a copy of your complaint to the carrier and requesting that a reply be sent directly to you and copied to me. A reply from the carrier is requested on or before November 8, 2012.
If you are not satisfied with the reply that you receive from the carrier, or if the carrier does not reply to you by the date specified, please advise me in writing and your complaint will be followed up with the carrier. If no communication has been received from you on or before November 15, 2012, it will be assumed that you no longer wish to pursue the matters raised in your complaint and your case will be closed.
In the interim, I have attached a copy of the Agency=s information sheet which explains the processes used by the Agency to resolve air travel complaints. The information contained in this document will allow you to better understand how your complaint will be handled. The following is a link to the Agency's Fly Smart brochure. http://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/fly-smart. Fly Smart provides helpful information and advice about flying to, from and within Canada which may make your future travel experiences less problematic.
Should you have any questions about the status of your complaint, you may contact me by e-mail at [redacted]@otc-cta.gc.ca, by telephone at [redacted] or by facsimile at [redacted]. Alternatively, you may leave a message for me with the Agency's Call Centre on its toll free telephone line and I will return your call as soon as possible.
Yours sincerely,
[redacted]
Air Travel Complaints Directorate
Attach.
c.c.: Swiss International Air Lines Ltd. (by facsimile)
------------------
Dear Mr. Techmarauder:
This will acknowledge receipt of your complaint filed with the Canadian Transportation Agency on October 4, 2012. Your Case Number is 12-XXXXX. Please refer to it any time you contact the Agency about this complaint.
My review of your complaint indicates that the carrier has not been given the opportunity to address in writing the issues that you have raised. If it appears that a carrier has not had the opportunity to respond to a written complaint, the Agency's role will be limited to forwarding a copy of the complaint to the carrier who will be asked to respond directly to the complainant.
Accordingly, with this letter I am forwarding a copy of your complaint to the carrier and requesting that a reply be sent directly to you and copied to me. A reply from the carrier is requested on or before November 8, 2012.
If you are not satisfied with the reply that you receive from the carrier, or if the carrier does not reply to you by the date specified, please advise me in writing and your complaint will be followed up with the carrier. If no communication has been received from you on or before November 15, 2012, it will be assumed that you no longer wish to pursue the matters raised in your complaint and your case will be closed.
In the interim, I have attached a copy of the Agency=s information sheet which explains the processes used by the Agency to resolve air travel complaints. The information contained in this document will allow you to better understand how your complaint will be handled. The following is a link to the Agency's Fly Smart brochure. http://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/fly-smart. Fly Smart provides helpful information and advice about flying to, from and within Canada which may make your future travel experiences less problematic.
Should you have any questions about the status of your complaint, you may contact me by e-mail at [redacted]@otc-cta.gc.ca, by telephone at [redacted] or by facsimile at [redacted]. Alternatively, you may leave a message for me with the Agency's Call Centre on its toll free telephone line and I will return your call as soon as possible.
Yours sincerely,
[redacted]
Air Travel Complaints Directorate
Attach.
c.c.: Swiss International Air Lines Ltd. (by facsimile)
Last edited by tcook052; Oct 9, 2012 at 7:51 pm
Oct 9, 2012, 5:49 pm
#3283
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: 10^7 mm from Ȱ
Programs: Hyatt D/HHonors D/ SPG P/ Marriott P/ IHG P/ UA 1K/ AA EXP/ DL D
Posts: 1,976
See this post: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/19466107-post3254.html
Oct 9, 2012, 5:57 pm
#3284
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: DCA
Programs: US Silver, UA Plat, HHonors Diamond, SPG Gold
Posts: 212
Oct 9, 2012, 6:17 pm
#3285
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,903
Yes, we know. But, TL does know that we know, you know?
They are basically appeasing the DOT by contacting all of us with a US segment and buying time to figure this mess out. We received the email from TL to an email account that we gave the DOT only. TL never had access to that email address so to me it is clear that the DOT is gathering all the cases, throwing out the non-US itns and is making the OTAs contact the passengers. All good signs
I am hearing a shuffle in the background between TL, LX and IATA and others who needs to pay whom for what and how much. Rather than how do we cancel this best. But that is pure speculation on my part.