GregInMN

Interesting, I'm about 60,000 points short of LTP - I understand we have till 12/31 for calculation purposes, I might make it. Hope you can get there too. Happy to be moved to LTP but LP PP would be nice,

shukar

I have 492 Lifetime Marriott nights and 1,060,000 points. According to Marriott rep I called, I have seven years of gold status at Marriott. I don't use SPG much. I can probably get to 500 nights before Dec 31st. To get LT silver/gold, I can get 50k gifted plus some credit card activities to reach 1.2M (reaching 1.6M will be hard). Should I go to the trouble of accelerating to LT gold or since I will be LT Gold under new rules, it makes sense to not put extra effort?

sdsearch

I disagree about the "clearly" part.

I don't see anywhere in what you quoted by StarwoodLurker where it actually says that!

It has two separate statements which depending on how you interpret the relationship between those two statement may or may not imply that at most.

FIrst it says what you can use to qualify under the new rules. Then it says when, but now explicitly how, you can qualify under the old rules. Since it doesn't say explicitly how you can qualify under the old rules after Aug 1 but before Dec 31, it isn't clear at all IMHO which nights will count under the old rules after Aug 1 but before Dec 31. Maybe SPG nights won't count, but maybe they will, or maybe some will count and other's won't! I don't see how you can use that StarwoodLurker statement to absolutely prove that they won't count.

And Marriott's unwillingness to answer this any more clearly implies that they may not even have figured out yet exactly how all this will work. For example, what if they don't combine liftetime SPG nights, but do combine annual SPG nights, and those 2018 SPG nights (but not earlier ones) count toward the "old rules" (because they go into the same Marriott "nights" counter and then into the same Marriott "lifetime nights" counter)? There's just so many possiblities of "side effects" of one action affecting something else, that it's not possible IMHO to know at this points exactly how it will all end up working.

CJKatl

OK, then let's try this Lurker quote from the Wiki:
Members will have until year-end 2018 to achieve Lifetime status under the current, separate policies.

• The current separate policies do not allow combining the points from two programs.

Beginning August 2018, members can also achieve based on their combined nights...

• Note the word "also" is used, which means what is after the word is different than what is before the word, which means only after the word "also" are they talking about combining points or combining points would be in the first clause.

It is very clear: either under the old policies or combined under the new policies. This has actually been answered several times by the Lurker in very clear wording. As someone said in another thread, wishful thinking doesn't translate to actual confusion.

yurtripper

sdsearch

But what's not clear is whether they'll combine some or all nights from SPG automatically into the Lifetime Nights counter, and/or if there'll only one Lifetime Nights counter.

Yes, it's very clear about points, but it requires reading between the lines with interpretation about nights (like your focus on the word "also" which you read differently than I do). So IMHO it's not totally clear about all nights, since as I pointed out before, if they combine some nights automatically (which has not been ruled out), how will they keep them separate after that?

Besides, this new post you quote with this is "also" is inaccurate after the "also". It claims the new criteria are combined nights, but actually they're combined nights and some sort of years (combined?) too. But they years are not mentioned. And since the years are not mentioned, I take that reply as inaccurate, and if it's inaccurate about one thing, it could be inaccurate about other things.

And there's difference between wishful thinking and not understanding how they could do it. On the one hand, combining points and not having the SPG points count toward lifetime status is something they've already implemented, that's done. But they haven't yet combined nights, and who's to know if there will for example be an IT glitch (and Marriott is famous for IT glitches) which counts SPG nights of some sort.

I'm not "hoping" for that, I'm not "wishing" for that, I just don't see how it can be ruled out. Its chance lessened perhaps, but ruled out completely, that's another story?

Whatever came of "wait for the datapoints" which FTers follow with so many other things?

bhrubin

You tried, @CJKatl. I think you and the Starwood Lurker both clarified it pretty well. I recommend moving on and letting people figure it out on their own...or not.

CJKatl

It is very clear. The rules that exist today means the totals and parameters that exist today. Combined very clearly requires qualification under the new rules. It has been stated many, many times. Once you look at a combined total you are under the new rules. The old rules do not allow for totals to be combined. You are looking for qualification under some old and some new rules which clearly does not exist. There is no confusion on this. If you want to cling to that false hope go ahead.

BTW, you do realize there will be no combined total in either old program, right? The combined total is only for the new program, so how would the new total even be used under the old rules? The combined total has nothing to do with any of the legacy programs and is only part of the new program. It is an entirely new program. As far as either legacy program is concerned you will only ever have your balance from that program when working under the parameters of that program.

Let's try it this way: If you want eggs you can go to the market and buy them in a carton like you always do. As of Aug 1 you can also go to the farm and take them from underneath the chicken. That does not mean you can go to the market on Aug 2 and take them from underneath the chicken. You will also have a second choice but that does not magically change the first choice; it is still as it always was. You somehow think the equivalent of being able to get the eggs from underneath the chickens in the market because if that option is available at the farm it is available everywhere. There are going to be two options. the legacy option and also the new option but no hybrid.

CJKatl

That is what "tenure" means. The two programs measured tenure differently. One used years, the other points. Just because the Lurker used different words than words a poster wanted to see does not change that the statement is clear. It's like calling something a Kleenex instead of a tissue.

And yes, @brubin, I am a glutton for punishment. My fear is that anyone else will read and believe the information is not clear. As I've stated before, this reminds me of the denial my parents had after my telling them I am gay.

igor82j

Do you refer to this Wiki question in the Starwood thread?
Will those who got Marriott Platinum via a status challenge this year (supposedly valid till Feb 2020) be switched to Platinum Elite or Platinum Premier Elite on August 1?

Well, the answer to this question is pretty clear. However, my situation is different. I am talking about the status which is valid till Feb 2019. The status challenge was met in 2017, not in 2019.

sdsearch

The parameters that exist today including something called Lifetime Nights, not called Lifetime Marriott Nights. If something somehow gets added to that counter, why would that not be "what exist today"? And unless you've already seen the IT, how do you know what will and won't be added to that counter?

They have said they (not us) will evaluate combined status in August, not just in December. Well, how can they evaluate combined status without combining 2018 nights from all 3 programs, and yet allow us to qualify under the old rules, if nothing ever gets mixed in August? So something doesn't add up here!

So there are contradictions to be found in the many things Starwood Lurker and others have said, unless they're going to create b bunch of separate "nights" counters suddenly in August, or code something that doesn't exist yet (not counting 2018 SPG nights into a Liftetime total even as they're counted into an annual total) without breaking it (like they've currently broken the online lifetime points counter).

Yes, it may seem clear to when you look at one or two posts with blinders on. But if you look at the zillions of things that various people Marriott/SPG have posted, it's not so clear any more.

Anyway, like I said, this is FT. Since when on FT does reading tea leaves trump datapoints? Let's just wait for those datapionts (yes, I know, we have to wait 3 months), and then we'll know for sure what works and doesn't work. I don't know why you feel this has to be decided today. Like I said, it makes sense to decide what the chances of something are today, it does make sense to decide what is absolutely certainly going to happen today.

Btw, I have to explain that I have a path planned for each eventuality. So I'm not "hoping" for one outcome because that's the only way I'll get to LTPP, I just realize that some outcomes would be "easier" than others. So I accept your constant attempts to convince me of some "absolute truth" as increased odds of how it will work come August, but I won't accept anything as "absolute truth" even come August without datapoints.

CJKatl

The present rules for the present MR program, from the T&Cs:
Call them Lifetime Nights or Lifetime Marriott Nights or whatever you want, they only include the historic Marriott brands as are listed towards the beginning of the T&Cs. You can qualify under these rules, which require qualifying nights that fall under this definition, and you can also, effective Aug 1, qualify with a combined account under the new rules. It is very, very clear that there is no combining nights, which is only possible under the new rules, but then using the old rules with the combined total. This is something that has consistently been provided to us several times over the past few days in wording that has obviously been vetted by Marriott.

Nowhere is it being stated that you can combine nights and apply old rules. It is being clearly stated you can qualify under the old rules, which include the definition above, or as of Aug 1 you can combine nights and qualify under the new rules. Even if IT shows you a combined total on the site that will not change the T&Cs which are the governing rules.

The Lurker has been very careful over the past few days to only post answers that have been vetted and to not change any wording, not to opine and not to clarify without getting the wording from his PTB. Things some CS person may have said over the phone or sent in an email last week are the reasons the company has moved to this very controlled communication channel. It appears what the Lurker is posting now is what we can rely on, especially when he is posting consistent information in several places.

GoPhils

phltraveler

This is one of the clearest things about the whole program merger.

https://members.marriott.com/faq/#wh...ifetime-status

GoPhils

Good call, didn't realize that was in there I thought that clarification came later. So then yeah, the entire statement around Lifetime status has been pretty clear.