Shecky

Longtime lurker, first-time poster. I've got a bit of a whopper of a situation, so bear with me. Not sure where to turn or what to do next, so advice is welcome.

I'm a Lifetime Platinum who booked a one-night points stay at the Jacksonville Downtown Marriott for 12/13 back in August. Wife and I knew we would be in the area at that time and decided to do dinner and a show at a downtown theater.

Anyway, here's the blow-by-blow, in three acts. Apologies for the length, but the details are important, I think.

ACT I
--I used online check-in via the app the night before arrival.

--Received room ready notification early in afternoon day of arrival. Arrive at hotel late afternoon.

--Approach desk, say "Hi. Checking in. Actually, I used online check-in, so I guess I am just picking up my keys."

--Front desk manager greets me.. Asks name. Takes him a while to find reservation. Finds it. Ask for ID. I hand him license. He checks it. Hands it back. Hands me single key. Mentions that on-site restaurant is open till 11 p.m. and will be open for breakfast in morning. Ask if I would like some water. And that's pretty much it.

--I ask him to code another key as I need two keys.

--I am thinking in my head, he made no mention of my status, my welcome gift or my guaranteed lounge benefit. Very strange.

--Hands me second key.

--"Thanks." I take a step toward the elevator, then turn back. I mean, I have no idea if there is a lounge or breakfast benefit, if I have been upgraded (I had), if my welcome points will be processed (clerks almost always take time to mention the points in some fashion or offer choice of other item/FB credit).

--I'm thinking in my head, "this is exactly when the $100 cash compensation would apply."

--I did online check-in, so I don't know if the welcome gift compensation applies. I assume it defaults to points, which is fine, so I don't mention it. But I do know that the lounge/breakfast benefit is guaranteed and was not offered "on arrival" as the T&C say. I also know that I have given the manager ample opportunity to offer those things and give me the boilerplate welcome spiel that every arriving guest gets.

--I say, as politely as I can "I'm sorry, but I am a Lifetime Platinum. You did not mention my status, a welcome gift or lounge or breakfast benefit. I'm pretty sure I'm due compensation for that."

--Manager seems a bit flustered, especially by my asking for a second key and then bringing up the compensation all in the span of a few seconds. He says "Sorry, uh, this was an online check-in so that threw me off."

--I say something to the effect of "well, that may be, but i do think I'm due $100 cash."

--Manager then mentions that they do offer breakfast, points and the standard welcome gift (points or F&B credit).

--Me: "Ok. But I still believe I am entitled to compensation."

--Second front desk worker joins in, mentioning that "We don't really have a set amount that we offer for compensation."

--I say "Yes, Marriott does, actually. It's $100. And that's cash. I can show you in the Terms and Conditions."

--Manager questions the $100 compensation, but says if that's the correct amount he can offer it in various other ways (assuming through points or F&B credit).

--At this point, I am starting to get annoyed. It seems neither the manager nor the clerk have any awareness of the $100 compensation for Guaranteed Lounge Access or the welcome gift. If I wanted to push the issue, I should have requested $200 because technically I think I was due both.

--I say "It's $100 cash. Again, I can show you the Terms and Conditions."

--Manager says just a second, goes into office, returns with cash purse, pulls out one $100 bill and hands it to me.

--I say "Thank you, I appreciate that." I am puzzled by the sudden lack of pushback but am pleasantly surprised.


ACT II
--A few hours later, during dinner at the hotel restaurant (Marriott burgers for both of us, excellent)., I get a call from a Jacksonville number.

--I answer. It's the front desk manager. Pleasant enough greeting, but he cuts to the chase pretty quick. He tells me that Marriott does not offer cash compensation for my issues on arrival and that I will need to return the $100 bill he gave me and that he has opened a case with Marriott corporate concerning the issue.He insinuates that I have attempted to defraud the hotel and that now his cash drawer is $100 short, insinuating that I have stolen $100 from him. "I will need that $100 back from you," he says more than once. He also keeps referring to the "welcome gift," which is not why I asked for the $100. It was the lack of lounge/breakfast access, but it's clear in his mind they are all really just one single benefit.

--I am flabbergasted. Truly. I am trying to have dinner with my wife before a show and a night out that we have planned for several months, and the manager is in so many words is accusing me of stealing from the hotel. I am offended and angered. I say I am not going to argue with him, I am at dinner, and can we please deal with this in the morning? He agrees.

--Unbeknownst to me, his "opening a case" meant the matter was now being investigated by Marriott's Loyalty Program Risk team, essentially because the manager told them he felt I was trying to defraud the hotel.

--Regardless, I am shocked. We finish our meal and begin walking to the theater. I immediately dial the Platinum Bonvoy line and ask for a supervisor. I get a supervisor, who mentions that yes, there is a case already open (requested by the manager). I vent. I tell her getting a phone call from the manager demanding the $100 back is absolutely uncalled for. I tell her I am worried about being ejected from the hotel, or having my card charged for the $100, or having my car held by the valet in retaliation. I cannot believe this is happening, and it's ruining our night. Wife is scared we are going to be thrown out of hotel. Supervisor assures me our reservation is guaranteed and we will not be ejected. She says it sounds like there was a miscommunication at checkin and that she will call the hotel to sort it out. She never flat-out agrees with me that I was due $100, but whatever. She does seem to agree that the manager calling me and demanding the $100 back was out of line. She then mentions they "loyalty program risk" team and explains the case is being investigated by them. I am further shocked, because now I have learned that I am suspected of some sort of fraudulent behavior.

--Attend show. It sucks because we are worried about what might happen in the morning.

--Return to hotel. Terrible sleep.


ACT III
--I spend part of my morning studying T&C, writing notes on the pertinent sections so I can show the manager at checkout.

--Skip breakfast, because the phone supervisor I talked to the previous night said that the property does not actually offer lounge access or free breakfast but instead offers a general F&B credit. I figure if we get that credit we can just apply it to our dinner. Neither of us is hungry, anyway.

--Approach desk for checkout. Manager says "Ah, glad you are here. We need to discuss this compensation."

--I say, "Sure. But shouldn't we do this in private?" Manager agrees. We go to an empty area of the lobby.

--Manager starts by apologizing,sort of, for the phone call the night before. Says he could have handled it better. .Good start. We are cordial. The first point I want to make is that the welcome gift and the lounge access/breakfast benefit are two separate things and I try to explain this, but he continually cuts me off. Again, in his mind, it is clear these benefits are all part of one package they offer to plats and above. Whatever. But again, I tell him, I was not offered anything at all. That's why I was due $100 (and perhaps $200) in cash.

--He again insinuates that because I checked in online I was not due any compensation and that "Marriott does not offer cash compensation."

--I show him the T&C which are pulled up on my phone. I show him my notes with each section of of the T&C that applies. He's not interested.

--I can tell all he wants is that $100 bill back. Which is insane. He gave it me. If he thinks it was a mistake, well, that's a learning experience. It's not my problem. But to continue to harass me for it is out of line. Especially a lifetime plat. I mean, come on. You don't treat any guest like this, but certainly not a lifetime plat. And I tell him to insinuate that I was committing some sort of fraud or a scam all for $100 is insulting. He says "Hey, people will do all kinds of stuff."

--He again says he is willing to compensate me $100 "If that's what you insist," but he can't do it in cash, only points or F&B. I tell him I am not insisting anything. It is a written Marriott policy.

--We are getting nowhere. So I flat-out say "You know, as a matter of principle, I am not giving you that $100 bill back. I can't, anyway. I already spent it."

--This infuriates him. He says "Ok, then we are done discussing this and Marriott can figure this out." He starts to briskly walk back to the desk.

--I say "That's fine, but I still need to checkout." I want a printed folio because I have no idea what sort of charges he might apply. He closes me out -- I think -- and prints folio and hands it to me. I look at it. There is no F&B credit applied to dinner. I know I am pushing my luck, but I say "The phone supervisor I spoke to last night said you offer a general F&B credit in lieu of lounge/breakfast benefit. You say you don't, but we did not use the breakfast credit you say you offer because we were under the impression that we could apply it to our dinner charge based on what the supervisor said."

--Manager loses his cool at this point. We are now standing in front of desk among several guests waiting to check-in or checkout. He says "We're not doing any credits for you. In fact, you will no longer be welcome at this hotel in the future." He storms back behind desk and into office.

--I am again shocked and flabbergasted. Unbelievable.He essentially told me I was banned from the hotel, and he did it in front of other guests.

--I get in car and immediately call Platinum line again. Get different supervisor. He says case is actually closed, but I relay what happened at checkout. He says he is opening the case up again based on what I have told him about the checkout experience. As we are talking, he says he sees that there is new information -- manager appears to be calling at the same time. He tells me in his opinion that it appears I should have received the $100 cash compensation. I tell him how shocked I am to be treated this way to be banned from a property for requesting --and receiving -- a benefit guaranteed by Marriott. I tell him I am not looking for further compensation but I am offended and that the manager should be, at the least, retrained, because you don't treat guest like this. He says the case should be resolved soon and I should hear from Marriott in the coming days.


Now, I am thinking more and more that I should indeed ask for more compensation from Marriott based on how I was treated by a manager. Again, apparently I was banned from a property and had my account investigated for fraud because I asked for AND RECEIVED guaranteed compensation and then was asked to return it.

Sorry for the length and thanks for reading if you made it this far.

But this whole thing is mind-boggling to me. What should be done going forward?

Nazdoom

I'm the farthest thing from a Marriott bootlicker, but I don't think you were really due the $100. When you mobile check-in, the app defaults to points with a message telling you to ask front desk if you want to change it. That reverses the onus onto you to ask, rather than for them to prompt, so no compensation would be due. In terms of the lounge guarantee, I assume the property has no lounge and is not a resort, right? While non-resorts in the US are obligated to provide lounge access or, if it's closed or non-existent, choice of breakfast or points, I don't think it's reasonable to enforce the guarantee unless you've actually finished checking in. Taking a step towards the elevator falls short, IMO, because you are still down at the front desk as part of that initial check-in interaction and the conversation isn't necessarily over (just like if you took the key and ran to go use the washroom before the staff got to explain the benefits, that wouldn't entitle you to compensation just because they didn't say everything they wanted to say yet). That said, I recognize you may feel like technically it's due, based in a literal reading of the T&C, and what happened afterwards and their poor attitude may make you less willing to empathize. Generally speaking, there is typically an obligation of good faith in contractual dealings, which includes giving the other party the opportunity to perform their side of the contract. If you have knowledge that, if shared, you know would allow them to perform, and if withheld, may induce them to breach their obligations, then I would feel an obligation to share that information. I'm speaking personally and ethically, rather than legally, as obviously law varies by jurisdiction, but this is a basic principle I think is universally true in terms of dealing with others fairly and reasonably from an ethical perspective.

Besides, do we really want to operate under a literal, technical interpretation? Elites spend a lot of time in hotels, often many hotels. Many of us appreciate fast check-in experiences. And often that is part of why we choose to use the app. Hotels have a ton of info they can throw at us during check-in -- e.g., hours and location of gym, pool, spa, laundry, restaurant(s), shuttles, how to navigate the room from downstairs, policies about max people in room or noise or smoking, current special promotions -- in addition to elite-specific info. Often it goes in one ear and out the other. Staff will often skip over what they think is less relevant or important to us (sometimes it hurts when they take a look at my physique and skip over gym info ), or what they think we might already know. Sometimes they mistakenly assume based on our familiarity that we've stayed before (without checking) and just do the basics. It's not that unreasonable to expect elites to expressly ask for what they want to know. In my humble opinion, the proper purpose of the guarantees are to force hotels to honour benefits, i.e., actually deliver the good or service that is promised, not to simply waste everyone's time proactively explaining when not asked.

In addition tot he above, I'll also add that it wasn't the right time to ask for the compensation while still downstairs. If you didn't yet know whether there was a lounge, for all you knew your card was coded for lounge access and/or you could just walk into the lounge and give your room number (where ever the lounge might be, but usually indicated in the elevator if not on the ground floor). If no lounge, it seems apparent the hotel would have honoured restaurant breakfast if you had clarified "where do I get the elite member breakfast?" or even if you just ate in the restaurant and gave your room number per usual. I would only think to enforce the lounge guarantee if you were refused breakfast, were forced to pay for breakfast and they didn't take it off your bill, or if they refused a request to take the points instead. All that is to say I wouldn't have asked for the compensation, and I certainly wouldn't have pressed for it.

That said, there are bigger issues in your story about this property and Marriott more generally.

First, corporate policies and these guarantees are poorly drafted and not well understood by staff nor elites. What's the point of a guarantee if nobody knows what's guaranteed? What's the point if staff won't honour it or guests don't know when it applies? If staff aren't well enough trained to mention breakfast to elites, in what world will they know the T&C from the corporate website? Guests shouldn't be expected to memorize T&Cs to get what they are entitled to. Properties shouldn't need the stick of $100 guest compensation in order to follow corporate and brand standards. This scheme really serves no-one well.

Second, it sounds like the staff (incl. manager) are poorly trained at this property, not particularly bright, and not pleasant. It's pretty absurd to give a guest a $100 bill if you don't agree it's owed. It's even more absurd to then do your investigation and ask for it back. There's the possibility the manager felt physically intimated or threatened or tricked, or may even claim they were even if in reality they weren't but needed to provide an excuse when someone higher up questions their decision to give it to you. Maybe you didn't appreciate being banned by the property, but it sounds like it was a blessing. There are likely more systematic management issues at play.

In terms of next steps, I would ask for a letter signed by the GM apologizing for the staff's mistake and confirming you have permission to return to the property (in case you ever find yourself back there for whatever reason and the manager tries to trespass you, staff raise an accusation in the future that you threatened/harassed them or stole or got them wrongly fired or whatever, or in case Marriott corporate investigates you in the future and doesn't treat this hotel's claims against you). I probably wouldn't return in any event. I would expect the GM, learning about what happened from the process of being asked to issue a written apology, to proactively comp the night. But I wouldn't ask for anything other than just the letter.

Nothing in this comment constitutes legal advice.

nacho

Mobile check-in = you waive your right to the PAG compensation.

nacho

I only raise this guarantee when I had a bad stay, if the hotel treated me nice, I'd remind them that they have forgotten to give me the choice of arrival gift. If they messed up, I'd mention it just before I'm about to check out.

FormerLurker

Unless there's something I'm missing, I don't think you were entitled to any compensation either. You seem to have two complaints that you believe merit compensation:

1. Lack of choice of welcome amenity (points or F&B credit). Yet you did select the points (automatically) by using the mobile check-in and the instructions were clear that you needed to initiate a conversation to change from that to (presumably) a F&B credit. You didn't, so no compensation due.

2. No mention of lounge access or alternative upon check-in. Nowhere that I see in the T&C provides for compensation if your options aren't mentioned. It's due if they're not offered. I know we're quibbling a bit here, but if we play gotcha with the distinction of whether they say something on check-in versus say no when you ask for what you are entitled to, I agree with the earlier poster that's not going to end well for us. Your post doesn't say so, but I infer there either is no lounge at that hotel or it was closed/unavailable. In that case, the T&C say you're entitled to daily continental breakfast in the restaurant or 750 points (not a F&B credit). It sounds like you didn't use the breakfast option for whatever reason. You were not entitled to a F&B credit to use whenever you wanted. So no compensation due.

The rest of it sounds like a miscommunication between you and the MOD about F&B credit as service recovery, not as required by the T&C, so no compensation due unless the hotel wanted to do it as a goodwill gesture.

Sorry, but I think you were asking for something you weren't entitled to under the T&C.

(Edited to add: what about the scenario of mobile check-in plus mobile/electronic key - in a scenario where you never see the FD, what are they to do? Automatically pay out because there was no conversation at all?)

Jon Maiman

Sorry, but I agree with the other posters in this thread. I don't think you were entitled to any compensation. When you reminded the Front Desk Associate about the Breakfast/Lounge benefit they responded and went over your options with you. Technically by the letter of the law, you might be entitled to the $100 compensation for them not greeting you as Platinum and going over the breakfast benefit when you first checked in. In practice, since they did offer the appropriate benefit when you went back to the front desk immediately after check in, I would have written it off to an honest mistake. It wouldn't have even occurred to me to ask for compensation.

It is a personal choice. With that disclaimer, I tend to give properties a lot of leeway on the arrival gift and lounge/breakfast as long as they make it right when asked if they forgot. Unless there are other service issues or the property staff has a very bad attitude, I won't ask for compensation. I try to treat hotel properties the same way I would like my customers to treat me. From time to time there will be service glitches or other issues. As long as the property makes a good faith effort to work through them, I will tend to let any misses slide. I have received 10K MR points a couple of times for service misses; however, it was unsolicited. It was offered by the property in response to my comments at checkout or from filling out a survey. I didn't ask for the points but was happy to accept them when offered.

The last time I pushed hard on a property for compensation was at a Holiday Inn during the early part of the Covid pandemic during the peak summer season in the Adirondacks. The room they gave us had a non functional A/C (wouldn't shut off). We only discovered the AC wouldn't shut off when we came back from dinner and the room was like a meat locker. They tried to fix it but the night shift tech. had no idea how to do so and the unit was shorting out and had a burning smell. After multiple failed attempts to fix it, we felt unsafe and decided we needed to leave the property. I had to push the front desk hard to get the GM's phone number. The GM did call me back promptly and I was able to get all of my points for the stay refunded. They also offered up an additional 50K points for the inconvenience which I accepted. We re-booked ourselves into a FI down the road in the next town. Where I am going with this? An issue like I had at the Holiday Inn or something else of similar magnitude is when I ask for compensation. For lesser issues as long as the property remedies it in a timely fashion, I tend to let it go. Again, when to push for compensation is a personal decision. Off SoapBox...

--Jon

arlflyer

Wow, what a lot of words...

The T&Cs say that you get $100 in the case that 1) "for some reason we’re unable to honor your reservation", 2) the member isn't given the "special gift" of 1000 points or a $10 F&B credit, or 3) there isn't a lounge and the guest isn't offered breakfast. In my attempt to parse out the OP's manifesto, I don't see any of these situations having occurred. The intent is to make things right if the property doesn't honor the benefits, not to give the guest a chance to pull a fast one with a "gotcha" if the benefit isn't immediately and proactively announced.

Hospitality is a two-way street. I'm siding with the manager in shedding a problem guest. "Dear Mrs. Crabapple, we will miss you. Love, Herb".

ElevatorEnthusiast

I've stayed at over 300 Marriott properties and counting in all continents - does every front desk associate remember to offer the welcome gift choice? No. Have I ever asked for the $100 compensation? No. Why? Because all you have to do is ask about the welcome gift choice and lounge/breakfast situation, and the front desk will remember. Sure, they should remember and not make assumptions, but people make mistakes. If they became belligerent or didn't want to offer the correct choices based on brand, that's a different story, but I would escalate to a manager first before demanding $100 in cash.

iluvdoco

Agreed. I checked-in last night and the FDA forgot to mention my welcome gift choice and elite benefits. No big deal. I just stopped by the front desk later to verify.

cfischer

So the OP pushed the hotel for a compensation that clearly was NOT due, not even remotely (as others already noted)

I think the OP needs to own the actions, apologize, return the $100 and hope that Marriott understands there was a confusion.

iluvdoco

Lifetime Plat should have known better.

Shecky

OK, just to clarify --

--I am a lifetime plat. I have stayed at hundreds of Marriott properties. Do I ask for comp everytime a clerk forgets to mention status, gift or lounge/breakfast benefit at check-in? Absolutely not. In fact, only once before have I ever asked for the cash comp, years ago, and it was upon checkout, and I was given $200 with no pushback and no questions asked. But the T&C indicate these things must be offered "on arrival" -- and that did not happen. They were not mentioned. They were not offered. Nothing was mentioned except restaurant hours. He also obviously looked up my reservation before he coded one key and did not ask if wanted a second (no big deal, but I am almost always asked or just given two keys). That's why I brought up the comp when I did -- because the T&C say "on arrival."

--I only asked for $100, not $200, because I assumed the arrival gift defaults to points when using online check-in, although I can't find anywhere where you can change this ala the Hilton app. So I assumed I was not entitled to $100 for no "offer" of arrival gift.

--I was dealing with the front desk manager at all times, so there was no one to "escalate" to other than the GM. The front desk manager is who I dealt with on arrival, on the phone (his call) and at checkout.

--Big lesson learned: Never use mobile check-in. I generally don't, but I have had good experiences with Hyatt's mobile check-in lately and thought I would try using Marriott's once more.

--I am most concerned with how I was treated after check-in. Was I not due the $100? Maybe -- according to several posters so far -- I was not. Fair enough. I was not trying to gain $100 in bad faith. According to the T&C in my interpretation the compensation applied in this case.. But the front desk manager had to have agreed because he handed me a $100 bill, then tersely asked for it back several hours later. That, to me, is insane. If you don't think I am due the compensation, then don't give it to me. Period. It did pretty much ruin our night out. Much anxiety ensued. It still ensues. We are not "Karens." We are not complainers. I truly thought the comp applied in this instance. To be treated rudely and told I was not welcome on the property was out of line. A terse phone call was out of line. To me, this was a learning experience for all involved, and you chalk up the $100 to a lesson learned.

--It was not an attempt at a "Gotcha!" moment. Again, clerks forget to mention status, gift, breakfast/lounge stuff sometimes (although I have been impressed with how often they hit all the marks). I'll usually just say "and you offer breakfast, right?" or something if they forget to mention it. And I would have done that here. But there was absolutely no mention of anything other than my name and how late the restaurant was open. I kept waiting for the rest or even some of the rest. It never came.I was not "offered" anything "on arrival." To me, according to T&C, I was due cash compensation.

Kacee

This is where you turn around and say, "hey, I'd like the $10 F&B credit instead of the points."

If they refuse you the choice, then you can ask for $100. Not before.

UA-NYC

I do think Marriott operates in bad faith WRT the breakfast benefit. I'm sure they know & have data that majority of elites prefer the breakfast benefit, and it's of course more expensive daily than a one-off gift of $4 worth of points...and that's why they DON'T default to it w/OLCI. This almost bit me last weekend w/ a stay. Purposeful obfuscation of a core benefit.

nacho

I think there is a discrepancy between the written T&C and how different people interpreting it. Basically this PAG is pushed onto the elites as we are the one who have to initiate the compensation. The term did say that hotels have to offer a choice of welcome gift upon arrival. That's why the BS "we have already given you point" is not valid in this case.

As I wrote before I do usually wait before initiating the claim. Once a hotel forgot and 15 minutes later they called and asked for my choice, which was great because it showed that they realized they have forgotten about it. I think it's fair to give them a chance to remember that they should offer us a gift.