Feb 25, 2022, 8:38 am
Last edit by: goodeats21
*** It seems the Free Night Certificate + Points "top-off" redemption went live on April 29 or 30th 2022 - Discussions here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...on-thread.html ***
Starting March 29, our new flexible point redemption rates will go into effect. That means free nights will align more closely with nightly rates and availability. For stay dates in 2022, you can expect that nearly all of our hotels will have the same minimum and maximum number of points required for redemption — similarly to how they were previously categorized.
All the ways you earn points will not change — you’ll just have more flexibility when you’re ready to redeem.
Plus, starting at the end of April, you can combine your Free Night Award with up to 15,000 points to access more hotels you’ll love.
Our current redemption process will remain in place through March 28. After that, you will not see hotel categories (1–8) or redemption rates classified as Off-Peak, Standard, or Peak. At the same time, as part of our yearly redemption assessment process (similar to our annual category changes in previous years), the minimum point redemption rates will increase for approximately 200 hotels on March 29 — that’s less than 3% of all hotels. You can explore this list of hotels and decide when and where to maximize your free nights.
With our flexible cancellation policy, you can reserve your redemption stay and still modify your reservation if you find a lower rate in the future.
Want to learn more? Check out all our flexible point redemption rates FAQs.
When there is a redemption points rate drop, this info about how to modify award reservations -- on the website, not the app:
If you click to modify the existing reservation, and select to edit payment, it will adjust the points and keep the same reservation
HT to Schnit
Starting March 29, our new flexible point redemption rates will go into effect. That means free nights will align more closely with nightly rates and availability. For stay dates in 2022, you can expect that nearly all of our hotels will have the same minimum and maximum number of points required for redemption — similarly to how they were previously categorized.
All the ways you earn points will not change — you’ll just have more flexibility when you’re ready to redeem.
Plus, starting at the end of April, you can combine your Free Night Award with up to 15,000 points to access more hotels you’ll love.
Our current redemption process will remain in place through March 28. After that, you will not see hotel categories (1–8) or redemption rates classified as Off-Peak, Standard, or Peak. At the same time, as part of our yearly redemption assessment process (similar to our annual category changes in previous years), the minimum point redemption rates will increase for approximately 200 hotels on March 29 — that’s less than 3% of all hotels. You can explore this list of hotels and decide when and where to maximize your free nights.
With our flexible cancellation policy, you can reserve your redemption stay and still modify your reservation if you find a lower rate in the future.
Want to learn more? Check out all our flexible point redemption rates FAQs.
When there is a redemption points rate drop, this info about how to modify award reservations -- on the website, not the app:
If you click to modify the existing reservation, and select to edit payment, it will adjust the points and keep the same reservation
HT to Schnit
29 Mar 2022 : Introduction of Dynamic award pricing and removal of award chart
Mar 30, 2022, 3:21 pm
#256
Join Date: Mar 2022
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Hyatt globalist, Marriott gold
Posts: 2
Thats correct and exactly what I was thinking they did. The properties I was looking at were not during a peak period, so what I believe they did was not only add the 20K points per night but they also bumped these properties up to their "peak" rate of 100K, combining both to get to 120K. If that is the case then they actually hit the program twice, once by bumping up all the rates but also now taking high end category 8 properties that were clearly not in a peak period and made them all peak windows, which is not something that was advertised at all.
As an example, I booked the Ritz Carlton in Turks yesterday and it was 85K per night for a May stay (not a peak time in Turks). That same room was 119,500 today.
As an example, I booked the Ritz Carlton in Turks yesterday and it was 85K per night for a May stay (not a peak time in Turks). That same room was 119,500 today.
Last edited by MVencore; Mar 30, 2022 at 3:30 pm
Mar 30, 2022, 3:37 pm
#257
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,904
Late April, assuming it's not delayed again. Yes it will help a lot! Until then the 52k prices are 100% sting especially if you own an extended FNA.
Mar 30, 2022, 3:39 pm
#258
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: None - previously UA
Posts: 4,864
Mar 30, 2022, 3:54 pm
#259
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 524
Glad I burned 100s of thousands of points before the deval. Punishing elites like this doesn't make sense to me, but many things about the loyalty program do not. For example I am currently Ambassador, I have already passed the spend qualification for Ambassador requal but i'm unlikely to get close to 100 nights this year. Does it make sense to drop me down a tier because I spend more $ on fewer nights and reward the guy with 100 x $200 nights?
Mar 30, 2022, 3:59 pm
#260
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Hawaii
Programs: AA EXP, HA PL, Hilton 💎, Marriott Ti, Wyndham/Caesars 💎, Hertz PC
Posts: 343
Glad I burned 100s of thousands of points before the deval. Punishing elites like this doesn't make sense to me, but many things about the loyalty program do not. For example I am currently Ambassador, I have already passed the spend qualification for Ambassador requal but i'm unlikely to get close to 100 nights this year. Does it make sense to drop me down a tier because I spend more $ on fewer nights and reward the guy with 100 x $200 nights?
Mar 30, 2022, 4:12 pm
#261
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New England
Programs: WN A&cp, SPGplat
Posts: 89
Looking from another angle, it's not all neutral at the low end. I checked on a couple of utilitarian stays that I booked at a Fairfield property in western Mass. For one of them 5 nights booked at 40K (and still available a couple of days ago) is now requiring 68K. The other 5 nights booked at 42.5K is now showing 69K. Kinda steep percentage-wise.
Mar 30, 2022, 4:17 pm
#262
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: YYZ
Posts: 223
The Gritti didn't have have any standard awards available for my nights but yeah I noticed it was up to 120k on some of few nights it was available. Strangely, the St. Regis is less points than the Danieli for my nights, despite the cash rate being 400 euro higher.
Mar 30, 2022, 5:00 pm
#263
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 64
I’m curious if the property owners get any windfall from this or purely just a money grab for Marriott.
I once burned a FNA at a Fairfield Inn where the going rate was $300+/night or 35K points. The front desk trainee inadvertently showed me the rate sheet for each room that night and my room had a rate of ~$69 attached to it, along with several other rooms staying on points. Presumably this was the reimbursement Marriott paid to the hotel for award stays at that property.
Anyone have any insight on how the hotel operators get compensated on points stay?
I once burned a FNA at a Fairfield Inn where the going rate was $300+/night or 35K points. The front desk trainee inadvertently showed me the rate sheet for each room that night and my room had a rate of ~$69 attached to it, along with several other rooms staying on points. Presumably this was the reimbursement Marriott paid to the hotel for award stays at that property.
Anyone have any insight on how the hotel operators get compensated on points stay?
Mar 30, 2022, 7:58 pm
#264
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 271
mixed bag on my end... most were expected (per night)
ritz maldives: +32k
st regis bora: +29k
edition bodrum: +18k
w maldives: +14k
rt regis roma: +7k
caresse bodrum: +5k
courtyard los angeles: +5k
marriott malta: -2k
courtyard lax: -2k
ritz maldives: +32k
st regis bora: +29k
edition bodrum: +18k
w maldives: +14k
rt regis roma: +7k
caresse bodrum: +5k
courtyard los angeles: +5k
marriott malta: -2k
courtyard lax: -2k
Last edited by randomdude; Mar 31, 2022 at 7:21 pm Reason: typos
Mar 30, 2022, 8:59 pm
#265
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 236
On Saturday, I booked a five night stay at the Westin Grand Cayman in early December. 4 nights at 60k points per night with fifth night free, totaling 240k points. Cash rate was $879 per night.
Today, the same reservation would cost 358k points for five nights, and cash rate is $616 per night.
Today, the same reservation would cost 358k points for five nights, and cash rate is $616 per night.
Mar 31, 2022, 2:36 am
#266
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
I suspect that Marriott may have some kind of a floor in value per point redeemed for hotel stays that speaks to Marriott having a willingness to face costs of around 0.46 cents per point redeemed. How much above something like a a cost of .46 cents per point redeemed will Marriott have built into its plans? Answers to questions like this can be a guide about what will happen with this program going forward for award night pricing, but it seems to me that the airline transfer option will be on the financial chopping block radar screen too for much the same reasons as indicated earlier. Airlines have been trying to increase their prices per mile sold to partner companies.
I strongly suspect this: when it comes to this St Regis, Marriott has had lower, occupancy-related award night reimbursement costs per point redeemed than is the case for award nights at the Gritti and that is part of why Marriott has devalued in this way that shows up with the Venice properties.
Reimbursement for award nights is largely a function of occupancy levels and regular paid ADR.
Reimbursement for award nights is largely a function of occupancy levels and regular paid ADR.
Last edited by GUWonder; Mar 31, 2022 at 2:49 am
Mar 31, 2022, 5:18 am
#267
Join Date: Apr 2019
Programs: Marriott - LT Titanium + Ambassador; DL - Diamond; UA - Platinum
Posts: 18
I have an upcoming stay at Mauna Kea in Hawaii that I booked at 50k per night (great value given the $1200/night cost). Same dates are now 100k per night. Much higher than the 30k increase as originally described by Marriott.
Mar 31, 2022, 5:21 am
#268
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MD/DC
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum, Marriott Titanium, TK Gold
Posts: 1,536
I completely agree. Plus, while Hilton do not have published categories, they do have categories that establish the absolute maximum for a standard room, and those are not changed often (despite the recent change - it has been couple of years since the last one). Therefore, one can at least get a ball park of what will be needed. The real shocker of the Hilton program is the redemption of none standard room that is pegged to the cost - but than again, you can book every room with points if you have them.
On the other side, Hilton have much less aspirational properties compared to Marriot (thanks mostly to SPG).
On the other side, Hilton have much less aspirational properties compared to Marriot (thanks mostly to SPG).
Yeah I'm not getting the hate on Hilton here. Their free night certificates aren't capped at certain categories and they also don't charge resort fees on award stays. Plus it's ridiculously easy to earn points. The base earn rate with an Aspire card (which is hands-down one of the best value premium travel cards on the market) is 34x (it gives you Diamond, so 100% bonus, plus 14x on Hilton spend and 3x base versus 6x/2x for Marriott). Titaniums with any Marriott card cap at 23.5x, and having two cards only gets you 40% of the way to Titanium. And Hilton is constantly running 2x points promotions, so half the time you're getting 44x points. They have even done 3x promotions for stays of three nights or more, so that's 54x. And they have respectable earn rates for restaurants, air travel, rental cars, etc., which makes it a better all-rounder for road warriors. With this devaluation I would hesitate to default to the Marriott co-brand cards for Marriott stays. 3x MR for the Amex Green and even 2x plus LPs for certain Aadvantage cards make more sense.
If they were to actually follow the Hilton route and offer uncapped free night certificates with their premium card and eliminate resort fees on award stays, plus start offering points at a rate more in line with Hilton (Titanium/Ambassador 100% points bonus, plus at least 10x Marriott spend for the Amex Brilliant) then I think they're competitive. As it stands Marriott points are now the skypesos of the hotel loyalty world.
If they were to actually follow the Hilton route and offer uncapped free night certificates with their premium card and eliminate resort fees on award stays, plus start offering points at a rate more in line with Hilton (Titanium/Ambassador 100% points bonus, plus at least 10x Marriott spend for the Amex Brilliant) then I think they're competitive. As it stands Marriott points are now the skypesos of the hotel loyalty world.
Mar 31, 2022, 7:00 am
#269
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: Marriott Ambassador, AA ExecPlat, Amtrak Select Exec, former WN apologist
Posts: 1,428
I’m curious if the property owners get any windfall from this or purely just a money grab for Marriott.
I once burned a FNA at a Fairfield Inn where the going rate was $300+/night or 35K points. The front desk trainee inadvertently showed me the rate sheet for each room that night and my room had a rate of ~$69 attached to it, along with several other rooms staying on points. Presumably this was the reimbursement Marriott paid to the hotel for award stays at that property.
Anyone have any insight on how the hotel operators get compensated on points stay?
I once burned a FNA at a Fairfield Inn where the going rate was $300+/night or 35K points. The front desk trainee inadvertently showed me the rate sheet for each room that night and my room had a rate of ~$69 attached to it, along with several other rooms staying on points. Presumably this was the reimbursement Marriott paid to the hotel for award stays at that property.
Anyone have any insight on how the hotel operators get compensated on points stay?
I have a theory that many high-end vacation destinations (think Ritz or St Regis in the Caribbean or Florida) charge insane cash rates in part because they know they will get tons of points redemptions. Then they just need a few people (suckers?) to pay the high cash rates and voila, they get huge reimbursement on all the points stays.
A couple interesting old threads on the topic.
What Bonvoy program pays property for point redemption
How do hotels get paid for points redemptions?
Mar 31, 2022, 7:09 am
#270
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: NYC
Programs: Bonvoy Ambassador, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Platinum, United 1K, AA Platinum
Posts: 31
Yeah I'm not getting the hate on Hilton here. Their free night certificates aren't capped at certain categories and they also don't charge resort fees on award stays. Plus it's ridiculously easy to earn points. The base earn rate with an Aspire card (which is hands-down one of the best value premium travel cards on the market) is 34x (it gives you Diamond, so 100% bonus, plus 14x on Hilton spend and 3x base versus 6x/2x for Marriott). Titaniums with any Marriott card cap at 23.5x, and having two cards only gets you 40% of the way to Titanium. And Hilton is constantly running 2x points promotions, so half the time you're getting 44x points. They have even done 3x promotions for stays of three nights or more, so that's 54x. And they have respectable earn rates for restaurants, air travel, rental cars, etc., which makes it a better all-rounder for road warriors. With this devaluation I would hesitate to default to the Marriott co-brand cards for Marriott stays. 3x MR for the Amex Green and even 2x plus LPs for certain Aadvantage cards make more sense.
If they were to actually follow the Hilton route and offer uncapped free night certificates with their premium card and eliminate resort fees on award stays, plus start offering points at a rate more in line with Hilton (Titanium/Ambassador 100% points bonus, plus at least 10x Marriott spend for the Amex Brilliant) then I think they're competitive. As it stands Marriott points are now the skypesos of the hotel loyalty world.
If they were to actually follow the Hilton route and offer uncapped free night certificates with their premium card and eliminate resort fees on award stays, plus start offering points at a rate more in line with Hilton (Titanium/Ambassador 100% points bonus, plus at least 10x Marriott spend for the Amex Brilliant) then I think they're competitive. As it stands Marriott points are now the skypesos of the hotel loyalty world.