Feb 25, 2022, 8:38 am
Last edit by: goodeats21
*** It seems the Free Night Certificate + Points "top-off" redemption went live on April 29 or 30th 2022 - Discussions here: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/marr...on-thread.html ***
Starting March 29, our new flexible point redemption rates will go into effect. That means free nights will align more closely with nightly rates and availability. For stay dates in 2022, you can expect that nearly all of our hotels will have the same minimum and maximum number of points required for redemption — similarly to how they were previously categorized.
All the ways you earn points will not change — you’ll just have more flexibility when you’re ready to redeem.
Plus, starting at the end of April, you can combine your Free Night Award with up to 15,000 points to access more hotels you’ll love.
Our current redemption process will remain in place through March 28. After that, you will not see hotel categories (1–8) or redemption rates classified as Off-Peak, Standard, or Peak. At the same time, as part of our yearly redemption assessment process (similar to our annual category changes in previous years), the minimum point redemption rates will increase for approximately 200 hotels on March 29 — that’s less than 3% of all hotels. You can explore this list of hotels and decide when and where to maximize your free nights.
With our flexible cancellation policy, you can reserve your redemption stay and still modify your reservation if you find a lower rate in the future.
Want to learn more? Check out all our flexible point redemption rates FAQs.
When there is a redemption points rate drop, this info about how to modify award reservations -- on the website, not the app:
If you click to modify the existing reservation, and select to edit payment, it will adjust the points and keep the same reservation
HT to Schnit
Starting March 29, our new flexible point redemption rates will go into effect. That means free nights will align more closely with nightly rates and availability. For stay dates in 2022, you can expect that nearly all of our hotels will have the same minimum and maximum number of points required for redemption — similarly to how they were previously categorized.
All the ways you earn points will not change — you’ll just have more flexibility when you’re ready to redeem.
Plus, starting at the end of April, you can combine your Free Night Award with up to 15,000 points to access more hotels you’ll love.
Our current redemption process will remain in place through March 28. After that, you will not see hotel categories (1–8) or redemption rates classified as Off-Peak, Standard, or Peak. At the same time, as part of our yearly redemption assessment process (similar to our annual category changes in previous years), the minimum point redemption rates will increase for approximately 200 hotels on March 29 — that’s less than 3% of all hotels. You can explore this list of hotels and decide when and where to maximize your free nights.
With our flexible cancellation policy, you can reserve your redemption stay and still modify your reservation if you find a lower rate in the future.
Want to learn more? Check out all our flexible point redemption rates FAQs.
When there is a redemption points rate drop, this info about how to modify award reservations -- on the website, not the app:
If you click to modify the existing reservation, and select to edit payment, it will adjust the points and keep the same reservation
HT to Schnit
29 Mar 2022 : Introduction of Dynamic award pricing and removal of award chart
Mar 30, 2022, 1:11 pm
#241
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
“grow or die” corporate mentality came with such an expensive marriage that it spawns a “devalue the loyalty program points to grow the program’s profits and margins for the growing company” approach.
Mar 30, 2022, 1:33 pm
#242
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 15
Figured this would happen, and frankly, I don't blame them.
I am a newbie to Bonvoy (second year titanium) -
I pay personally for all my stays, as I made an agreement with my employer that I could live elsewhere as long as I came in on my dime a few times a month.
This looks exactly like what happened with Delta - Try and book a first class ticket to the Maldives, you are SOL. Try to book a slight from ATL > DEN? Then it is actually BETTER than before.
Stayed at the Ritz Carlton Amelia Island a few months ago, and I asked the front desk out of curiosity what % of people are using points, and she said the vast majority were. I do wonder if these aspirational properties are cash cows, or, just serve to clear out the point liabilities from Marriott's un-earned revenue?
The majority of my stays are going to be at Aloft / Renaissance / Etc - and I frankly think this could be a good thing. I am not one to save all my points for one trip, but rather burn as I go, based on value. I do like that they are offering the top off function, albeit late.
The one thing that DOES piss me off a tad, is how many properties are JUST outside the tier of FNA (25k, 35k, 50k). I saw a courtyard Amelia Island at 36k points, and the JW Grande Lakes at 52k per night. That isn't dynamic - that is purely to keep people from using FNA.
I am a newbie to Bonvoy (second year titanium) -
I pay personally for all my stays, as I made an agreement with my employer that I could live elsewhere as long as I came in on my dime a few times a month.
This looks exactly like what happened with Delta - Try and book a first class ticket to the Maldives, you are SOL. Try to book a slight from ATL > DEN? Then it is actually BETTER than before.
Stayed at the Ritz Carlton Amelia Island a few months ago, and I asked the front desk out of curiosity what % of people are using points, and she said the vast majority were. I do wonder if these aspirational properties are cash cows, or, just serve to clear out the point liabilities from Marriott's un-earned revenue?
The majority of my stays are going to be at Aloft / Renaissance / Etc - and I frankly think this could be a good thing. I am not one to save all my points for one trip, but rather burn as I go, based on value. I do like that they are offering the top off function, albeit late.
The one thing that DOES piss me off a tad, is how many properties are JUST outside the tier of FNA (25k, 35k, 50k). I saw a courtyard Amelia Island at 36k points, and the JW Grande Lakes at 52k per night. That isn't dynamic - that is purely to keep people from using FNA.
Mar 30, 2022, 1:44 pm
#243
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: None - previously UA
Posts: 4,864
Mar 30, 2022, 1:47 pm
#244
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: Bonvoy Amb LTT, HHonors Diamond, AA ExPlat, United Silver
Posts: 641
One Positive For Me
Had a 3 night stay booked for mid-May at $621.00. When I looked today price for same room for same nights was $461.00. Looks like dynamic pricing works both ways depending on season, capacity and property.
Mar 30, 2022, 1:54 pm
#245
Join Date: Nov 2007
Programs: Marriott Bonvoy Platinum, Hilton Honors Diamond, Delta Gold
Posts: 4,349
Even though that's bad, it's not as bad as what's going to happen to aspirational Marriott properties come 2023. 150k per night with Hilton is still somewhat attainable especially given the ease of earning HH points, which isn't the case with Bonvoy points that are much harder to earn. You can also use HH FNCs on any category level.
But most Cat 8 property with Marriott we're going to see the points required shoot through the roof and you can certainly not use FNCs there. So they're just going to be unattainable on points, at least for me. And I'm definitely not going to pay their cash rates at those places either.
Mar 30, 2022, 2:04 pm
#246
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: YYZ
Posts: 223
Another positive data point, I had a stay booked at the Hotel Danieli Venice in June for 100k points/night. Just looked and it's now between 94k and 97k for my nights, so I cancelled, rebooked and saved a few points.
Mar 30, 2022, 2:09 pm
#247
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Saw that kind of thing with the Danieli, but then at the same time the Gritti went up a lot. Guess which one costs Marriott less per redemption night? The Danieli.
Mar 30, 2022, 2:34 pm
#249
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: Marriott Ambassador, AA ExecPlat, Amtrak Select Exec, former WN apologist
Posts: 1,428
One of the (few) positive changes is that you can now "top off" FNAs that just miss the threshold. So in your example, a 35k FNA plus an extra 1k points books Amelia Island. This is definitely an improvement from before, where a 35k cert was totally useless at a 40k property.
Mar 30, 2022, 2:39 pm
#250
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,904
One of the (few) positive changes is that you can now "top off" FNAs that just miss the threshold. So in your example, a 35k FNA plus an extra 1k points books Amelia Island. This is definitely an improvement from before, where a 35k cert was totally useless at a 40k property.
Mar 30, 2022, 2:42 pm
#251
Join Date: Nov 2007
Programs: Marriott Bonvoy Platinum, Hilton Honors Diamond, Delta Gold
Posts: 4,349
I don't think so as it's not live yet.
OP is just saying that in the case of a room being just over the 35k or 50k amount you'll still be able to use an FNC by topping it up where previously you just couldn't use it at all on those types of bookings.
OP is just saying that in the case of a room being just over the 35k or 50k amount you'll still be able to use an FNC by topping it up where previously you just couldn't use it at all on those types of bookings.
Mar 30, 2022, 2:49 pm
#252
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Marriott Bonvoy
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Englandshire
Programs: SPG LT Plat, BA G, BD*LG, MG Blue+ ...
Posts: 16,032
This change to ‘dynamic pricing’ only affects awards. Cash rates are already dynamic. It’ll be interesting to see whether hikes in award rates affects demand to such an extent that it back-influences cash rates.
Mar 30, 2022, 3:03 pm
#253
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Hawaii
Programs: AA EXP, HA PL, Hilton 💎, Marriott Ti, Wyndham/Caesars 💎, Hertz PC
Posts: 343
The WA Maldives went from 120k to 150k with no notice.
Even though that's bad, it's not as bad as what's going to happen to aspirational Marriott properties come 2023. 150k per night with Hilton is still somewhat attainable especially given the ease of earning HH points, which isn't the case with Bonvoy points that are much harder to earn. You can also use HH FNCs on any category level.
But most Cat 8 property with Marriott we're going to see the points required shoot through the roof and you can certainly not use FNCs there. So they're just going to be unattainable on points, at least for me. And I'm definitely not going to pay their cash rates at those places either.
Even though that's bad, it's not as bad as what's going to happen to aspirational Marriott properties come 2023. 150k per night with Hilton is still somewhat attainable especially given the ease of earning HH points, which isn't the case with Bonvoy points that are much harder to earn. You can also use HH FNCs on any category level.
But most Cat 8 property with Marriott we're going to see the points required shoot through the roof and you can certainly not use FNCs there. So they're just going to be unattainable on points, at least for me. And I'm definitely not going to pay their cash rates at those places either.
If they were to actually follow the Hilton route and offer uncapped free night certificates with their premium card and eliminate resort fees on award stays, plus start offering points at a rate more in line with Hilton (Titanium/Ambassador 100% points bonus, plus at least 10x Marriott spend for the Amex Brilliant) then I think they're competitive. As it stands Marriott points are now the skypesos of the hotel loyalty world.
Last edited by ajf87; Mar 30, 2022 at 3:11 pm
Mar 30, 2022, 3:13 pm
#254
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: PHL (and sometimes BKK)
Programs: aa/ua gold; mar titanium. SPG till I die.
Posts: 15,648
I was looking at the W Ibiza with points in August. Yesterday it was 70k across the board. Now it's between 63-70k. Not a big difference but given it's August in the Mediterranean, I was surprised to even see it off it's 70k cap.
The Waimea I booked at 280k is now 388k. FWIW the cash price also went up about $500/night from when I booked it.
The Waimea I booked at 280k is now 388k. FWIW the cash price also went up about $500/night from when I booked it.
Mar 30, 2022, 3:16 pm
#255
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: Marriott Ambassador, AA ExecPlat, Amtrak Select Exec, former WN apologist
Posts: 1,428