Feb 9, 2019, 3:52 pm
Last edit by: swag
It's out now: https://points-redemption.marriott.com/category-change
PDF of properties sorted by brand: https://lacek.hs.llnwd.net/e2/marrio...ogram=marriott
PDF of properties sorted by brand: https://lacek.hs.llnwd.net/e2/marrio...ogram=marriott
Annual Award Category Changes - Effective March 5, 2019.
Mar 24, 2019, 1:55 pm
#256
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: BOS
Posts: 2,315
I booked a couple Points Advance reservations on the evening of March 4th. I did not print confirmations as I assumed (incorrectly) that the e-mail confirmations would routinely follow, and when they did not come immediately I assumed the system was backed up with everyone making last minute reservations. From this thread I have now learned the Marriott is routinely not sending confirmations on PA stays.
I learned this week that reservations made before the 5th now show the higher category redemption levels. I was not aware of this from looking in the app, since there is no mention of it, but once a friend told me about the issue I discovered by looking online that my reservations had suffered the same fate. I also found a post (not sure if it is in this thread, as I can't locate it again) that said if the agent does not know how to fix your situation refer them to KM article 6115, which confirms you are to get the old award level and explains how to fix it.
Today I went to attach my certificates to one of the reservations. I called in, all set with the KM 6115 reference. To my surprise the agent insisted that I booked both of my reservations on the 5th, not the 4th. Moreover, despite my explaining that I had just purchased $3,500 worth of plane tickets and needed the situation resolved within the 24 hour cancel period for my flights, she said all she could do was open a case, and I "should" hear back within 3-5 business days. (This also took over 30 minutes of her putting me on hold and coming back - I thought she was working to attached the certificates!) When I asked for a supervisor she told me SHE WAS a supervisor. After reading this thread I called back, but got a similar response. I now have a message into the twitter team - and I point out that in the old days a supervisor would have had the authority and discretion to look at my account, to see that I have been a member for 36 years and am lifetime titanium, and to be able to take my word and make the situation right. Hopefully someone will promptly resolve this for me either in that fashion of confirming that I did indeed make the reservations on the 4th.
So disappointing and aggravating, and as others have pointed out, certainly not the way to reward your best customers and encourage loyalty. Like seriously, do they think I and lots of other people missed the deadline, woke up the next day and booked PA reservations, and waited a few weeks to try to scam them?! Ugh!
I learned this week that reservations made before the 5th now show the higher category redemption levels. I was not aware of this from looking in the app, since there is no mention of it, but once a friend told me about the issue I discovered by looking online that my reservations had suffered the same fate. I also found a post (not sure if it is in this thread, as I can't locate it again) that said if the agent does not know how to fix your situation refer them to KM article 6115, which confirms you are to get the old award level and explains how to fix it.
Today I went to attach my certificates to one of the reservations. I called in, all set with the KM 6115 reference. To my surprise the agent insisted that I booked both of my reservations on the 5th, not the 4th. Moreover, despite my explaining that I had just purchased $3,500 worth of plane tickets and needed the situation resolved within the 24 hour cancel period for my flights, she said all she could do was open a case, and I "should" hear back within 3-5 business days. (This also took over 30 minutes of her putting me on hold and coming back - I thought she was working to attached the certificates!) When I asked for a supervisor she told me SHE WAS a supervisor. After reading this thread I called back, but got a similar response. I now have a message into the twitter team - and I point out that in the old days a supervisor would have had the authority and discretion to look at my account, to see that I have been a member for 36 years and am lifetime titanium, and to be able to take my word and make the situation right. Hopefully someone will promptly resolve this for me either in that fashion of confirming that I did indeed make the reservations on the 4th.
So disappointing and aggravating, and as others have pointed out, certainly not the way to reward your best customers and encourage loyalty. Like seriously, do they think I and lots of other people missed the deadline, woke up the next day and booked PA reservations, and waited a few weeks to try to scam them?! Ugh!
Mar 24, 2019, 2:38 pm
#257
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SFO
Posts: 4,919
I booked a couple Points Advance reservations on the evening of March 4th. I did not print confirmations as I assumed (incorrectly) that the e-mail confirmations would routinely follow, and when they did not come immediately I assumed the system was backed up with everyone making last minute reservations. From this thread I have now learned the Marriott is routinely not sending confirmations on PA stays.
I learned this week that reservations made before the 5th now show the higher category redemption levels. I was not aware of this from looking in the app, since there is no mention of it, but once a friend told me about the issue I discovered by looking online that my reservations had suffered the same fate. I also found a post (not sure if it is in this thread, as I can't locate it again) that said if the agent does not know how to fix your situation refer them to KM article 6115, which confirms you are to get the old award level and explains how to fix it.
Today I went to attach my certificates to one of the reservations. I called in, all set with the KM 6115 reference. To my surprise the agent insisted that I booked both of my reservations on the 5th, not the 4th. Moreover, despite my explaining that I had just purchased $3,500 worth of plane tickets and needed the situation resolved within the 24 hour cancel period for my flights, she said all she could do was open a case, and I "should" hear back within 3-5 business days. (This also took over 30 minutes of her putting me on hold and coming back - I thought she was working to attached the certificates!) When I asked for a supervisor she told me SHE WAS a supervisor. After reading this thread I called back, but got a similar response. I now have a message into the twitter team - and I point out that in the old days a supervisor would have had the authority and discretion to look at my account, to see that I have been a member for 36 years and am lifetime titanium, and to be able to take my word and make the situation right. Hopefully someone will promptly resolve this for me either in that fashion of confirming that I did indeed make the reservations on the 4th.
So disappointing and aggravating, and as others have pointed out, certainly not the way to reward your best customers and encourage loyalty. Like seriously, do they think I and lots of other people missed the deadline, woke up the next day and booked PA reservations, and waited a few weeks to try to scam them?! Ugh!
I learned this week that reservations made before the 5th now show the higher category redemption levels. I was not aware of this from looking in the app, since there is no mention of it, but once a friend told me about the issue I discovered by looking online that my reservations had suffered the same fate. I also found a post (not sure if it is in this thread, as I can't locate it again) that said if the agent does not know how to fix your situation refer them to KM article 6115, which confirms you are to get the old award level and explains how to fix it.
Today I went to attach my certificates to one of the reservations. I called in, all set with the KM 6115 reference. To my surprise the agent insisted that I booked both of my reservations on the 5th, not the 4th. Moreover, despite my explaining that I had just purchased $3,500 worth of plane tickets and needed the situation resolved within the 24 hour cancel period for my flights, she said all she could do was open a case, and I "should" hear back within 3-5 business days. (This also took over 30 minutes of her putting me on hold and coming back - I thought she was working to attached the certificates!) When I asked for a supervisor she told me SHE WAS a supervisor. After reading this thread I called back, but got a similar response. I now have a message into the twitter team - and I point out that in the old days a supervisor would have had the authority and discretion to look at my account, to see that I have been a member for 36 years and am lifetime titanium, and to be able to take my word and make the situation right. Hopefully someone will promptly resolve this for me either in that fashion of confirming that I did indeed make the reservations on the 4th.
So disappointing and aggravating, and as others have pointed out, certainly not the way to reward your best customers and encourage loyalty. Like seriously, do they think I and lots of other people missed the deadline, woke up the next day and booked PA reservations, and waited a few weeks to try to scam them?! Ugh!
Not sure about the word “scam”, but I’m sure there is some of that going around from the member side because rationalization states that members feel Marriott “deserves” it for all the other crap (and rightfully so on some accounts).
I hope you get sorted out soon. I find that the research email is a lot more knowledgeable and responsive in this matter.
Mar 24, 2019, 2:44 pm
#258
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: BOS
Posts: 2,315
Thanks. I have two PA reservations both booked on the 4th hotel time zone and showed the correct levels when booked.
Mar 24, 2019, 9:15 pm
#259
Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: Aeroplan, Amex AeroPlat
Posts: 977
That to me is rather the key, as opposed to the hotel zone BS. Simply put, IF AND WHEN Marriott honours PA bookings made prior to March 4, then whichever point level shown at time of booking should be honoured, even if it’s already 5th in the hotel zone. The custome RELIED on Marriott website and app to show the correct points required and that should be it. Now if Marriott refuses to honour the PA bookings made before March 5 at the old point level, that’s an entirely different battle and issue. BUT again if Marriott decides to honour old PA bookings, then they should honour them at the point level shown at booking, plain and simple. This is simply a rule of commerical reality - you don’t freaking expect a customer to check for freaking hotel zone when making a point booking, and take that into consideration when making the PA booking.
So the hotel time zone BS I won’t buy. If an agent refuses to honour the PA booking based on hotel time zone, my answer would be well that’s Marriott freaking IT problem, and I shouldn’t pay for it. It’s somewhat analogous to buying things in a supermarket— if good is labeled as $5, then at cashier it goes up to $6 after a barcode scan, then I still can buy it at $5 because that ought to be basic law of commerce. Something about the offer-acceptance rule in contract law I think.
anyway, just my rant on this entire hotel time zone BS.
Mar 24, 2019, 10:10 pm
#260
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SFO
Posts: 4,919
That to me is rather the key, as opposed to the hotel zone BS. Simply put, IF AND WHEN Marriott honours PA bookings made prior to March 4, then whichever point level shown at time of booking should be honoured, even if it’s already 5th in the hotel zone. The custome RELIED on Marriott website and app to show the correct points required and that should be it. Now if Marriott refuses to honour the PA bookings made before March 5 at the old point level, that’s an entirely different battle and issue. BUT again if Marriott decides to honour old PA bookings, then they should honour them at the point level shown at booking, plain and simple. This is simply a rule of commerical reality - you don’t freaking expect a customer to check for freaking hotel zone when making a point booking, and take that into consideration when making the PA booking.
So the hotel time zone BS I won’t buy. If an agent refuses to honour the PA booking based on hotel time zone, my answer would be well that’s Marriott freaking IT problem, and I shouldn’t pay for it. It’s somewhat analogous to buying things in a supermarket— if good is labeled as $5, then at cashier it goes up to $6 after a barcode scan, then I still can buy it at $5 because that ought to be basic law of commerce. Something about the offer-acceptance rule in contract law I think.
anyway, just my rant on this entire hotel time zone BS.
The crappy part of this is that some points advance reservations don’t generate email confirmations.
Again, use the research email will get you better results than any phone agents, at least for our group of titaniums.
Mar 24, 2019, 11:04 pm
#261
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,773
I have a 3 night reservation booked for May before the category went up. Turned out the first two nights price went down significantly, so I would rather pay cash. Is it possible to change the reservation to just the last night and keep the old category? If I change the dates online, it would give me the new price. Would changing the dates with the hotel or Marriott allow me to keep the original night?
It has mentioned here and elsewhere, many of us booked multiple nights stays at ONE NIGHT Per Reservation, precisely to preserve the flexibility in situations like yours, plus other possible plan changes.
This is not Marriott alone, IHG and Hyatt and HH, all would let you book ahead, albeit you need to pay at the time of booking, at the old level. But if you need / want to change anything, the existing reservation is voided.
You can call to plead your case as miracles occasionally happen.
Mar 24, 2019, 11:09 pm
#262
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,773
While I fully agree with you and without going into the debate of what Marriott should do to make customers whole and without the “I’m leaving this joint for Hyatt”, if you don’t have a screen print of the reservation at the time of reservation showing the lower price point (and I know for a fact it happened to a couple of my friends), Marriott is not gonna budge, at least in my friends case. However, one of my friends is smart enough to do a screen print of the confirmation showing confirmation and point value (the whole Mar 4 booking a hotel in Mar 5 time zone already) and it was rectified after several email exchanges.
The crappy part of this is that some points advance reservations don’t generate email confirmations.
Again, use the research email will get you better results than any phone agents, at least for our group of titaniums.
The crappy part of this is that some points advance reservations don’t generate email confirmations.
Again, use the research email will get you better results than any phone agents, at least for our group of titaniums.
There are print / email buttons on the reservation detail screen one can use though. It has been mentioned multiple times when people realize they have not received emails on PA bookings, that many have resorted to use the email button to send self an email of the reservation.
Personally I have a habit to screenshot everything - Rate Details and Stay Details, just in case these will be needed to sort things out. Learn this lesson from occasional hotels "dont have the bookings" scenario at check in... inevitably those print outs resulting the clerk went in back office and then emerged later miraculously found the bookings - across all chains.
Mar 25, 2019, 10:24 am
#263
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: BOS
Posts: 2,315
Update on my experience:
1) Despite my initial message to the twitter team, and two follow up messages, I not only did not get a substantive response from them in 24 hours, but did not even get an acknowledgement, or suggestion that they were looking into it. That is 22 hours without a peep (or more accurately without a tweet). There is no excuse for that in my view.
2) I called back in and got a great phone rep. She too told me she was seeing the reservation being made on March 5th. However after I explained why I needed this resolved promptly (given my $3,500 worth of plane tickets in the 24 hour cancellation period) she dug deeper, and was able to confirm that indeed I was not making up a story, and the reservation was made at 10:30pm on the 4th. She also said that any agent had the ability to find this information if they knew what they were doing. She was then able to get the supervisor approval needed to credit my account with the point differential (120,000 points in my case) and issue and attach the certificates. It took 45 minutes, but it was like the good old days, which a caring, diligent phone representative.
3) So lessons learned (some of which I should have known): (a) print your confirmation or take a screen shot when you make it; (b) don't wait for the last minute to do these kind of transactions; (c) know that on a points advance reservation you probably will not get an e-mail confirmation; (d) don't call the elite desk on the weekend - you will get the B team at best; and (e) don't count on a reply or help from the social media team. Oh, and as everyone knows, the entire merger implementation is a disaster.
1) Despite my initial message to the twitter team, and two follow up messages, I not only did not get a substantive response from them in 24 hours, but did not even get an acknowledgement, or suggestion that they were looking into it. That is 22 hours without a peep (or more accurately without a tweet). There is no excuse for that in my view.
2) I called back in and got a great phone rep. She too told me she was seeing the reservation being made on March 5th. However after I explained why I needed this resolved promptly (given my $3,500 worth of plane tickets in the 24 hour cancellation period) she dug deeper, and was able to confirm that indeed I was not making up a story, and the reservation was made at 10:30pm on the 4th. She also said that any agent had the ability to find this information if they knew what they were doing. She was then able to get the supervisor approval needed to credit my account with the point differential (120,000 points in my case) and issue and attach the certificates. It took 45 minutes, but it was like the good old days, which a caring, diligent phone representative.
3) So lessons learned (some of which I should have known): (a) print your confirmation or take a screen shot when you make it; (b) don't wait for the last minute to do these kind of transactions; (c) know that on a points advance reservation you probably will not get an e-mail confirmation; (d) don't call the elite desk on the weekend - you will get the B team at best; and (e) don't count on a reply or help from the social media team. Oh, and as everyone knows, the entire merger implementation is a disaster.
Mar 31, 2019, 3:51 pm
#264
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: San Juan Capistrano, CA
Programs: Bonvoy Titanium, Hilton Diamond, AA 2.5 MM, United Gold, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,460
The problem with the rise in points and refusal to honor the old rate is so consistent, I'm wondering if it's class action time.
Mar 31, 2019, 7:15 pm
#265
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SFO
Posts: 4,919
Bucket 1 – made Points Advance reservation without points required. What are you trying to do? Get Marriott to put it in writing? You don’t have the points anyways so why the rush? (I get the whole I’m making nonrefundable flight reservation but if you TRULY made the reservation before the cutoff or have screenprint or email to show the actual cost of the room, Marriott will probably do good on it)
Bucket 2 – made Points Advance reservation with points required in the account. Appears that Marriott is making good on this for at least few of my colleagues over 10+ reservations using research@marriott email, all within 24 hours of emailing.
2a – made good is to credit the difference as an adjustment and then order the certificate (best result)
2b – someone I know got an email stating that they will honor the rate but will be adjusted closer to arrival (did not say how early).
Bucket 3 – made Points Advance reservation hoping to use lower category certificates. Appears that Marriott is not making it easy to use this. I know at least 2 people that got denied through research@marriott email. Not sure if this is right or wrong considering why would anyone NOT attach the certificate before the cutoff -AND- points advance state points in the future, not certificate advance. Again, not sure which way I feel about this.
Bucket 4 – there is always a bucket for the anomalies and scammers.
Mar 31, 2019, 7:25 pm
#266
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: BOS
Posts: 2,315
The problem I see - based on my experience - is that Marriott has created a lot of the issues on its own and even more significantly their default reaction is to put everyone in the “scammer” bucket - instead of using some common sense and looking at the loyalty of the person they are dealing with before responding.
Mar 31, 2019, 7:28 pm
#267
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SFO
Posts: 4,919
The problem I see - based on my experience - is that Marriott has created a lot of the issues on its own and even more significantly their default reaction is to put everyone in the “scammer” bucket - instead of using some common sense and looking at the loyalty of the person they are dealing with before responding.
Mar 31, 2019, 7:39 pm
#268
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: BOS
Posts: 2,315
Yes, but first time you had the top hotels in the chain all increasing by over 40% so what may have been a one-off issue in the past was probably a much bigger issue this year - on top of having members who already feel beat up and unloved by everything else that has occurred (want to talk about my travel package hotel certificates that I wasn’t allowed to uograde for the point difference?)
Mar 31, 2019, 7:49 pm
#269
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SFO
Posts: 4,919
Yes, but first time you had the top hotels in the chain all increasing by over 40% so what may have been a one-off issue in the past was probably a much bigger issue this year - on top of having members who already feel beat up and unloved by everything else that has occurred (want to talk about my travel package hotel certificates that I wasn’t allowed to uograde for the point difference?)
since you brought up not being able to upgrade certificates, if Marriott let’s you upgrade by paying the difference between the old package residual rate and the new travel package residual rate, will you go for it? Or do you feel that with the mess of the merger you are entitled to upgrade at old package upgrade rates?
Mar 31, 2019, 8:04 pm
#270
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: BOS
Posts: 2,315
Short answer, yes. EDIT - no if you are saying old package rate to new package rate. It should be old to old - or new to new, not old to new!
When I redeemed my two travel packages - well before there was any talk of a new award chart, etc., like many others I was told by the Marriott agents to redeem at the lowest level, and then when I was ready to book I would be able to upgrade by paying the difference. I really don't understand why if Marriott intended to change this long-standing practice they did not disclose it. Of course the only logical conclusion was that they wanted to avoid people redeeming higher value awards under the old reward chart and wanted to devalue awards without notice. That was an unfortunate approach, and if it was not what was intended it could have been quickly rectified by opening a short window for people to upgrade based on the old points differences.
However, if I had been offered the opportunity to upgrade based on the difference between the new awards levels, I would have done that too. While it would have costed me more, and strikes me as an inequitable approach, and least it would have allowed me to stay at the hotel of my choice - instead of being stuck in a lower category. Instead there are a lot of folks stuck with awards for a hotel level that they simply never stay at (most of my paid stays that earned the points were at Ritz Carlton hotels for example). But this topic has been beat to death, and it is what it is!
At the end of the day I was able to make it work and had a great awards trip, but
When I redeemed my two travel packages - well before there was any talk of a new award chart, etc., like many others I was told by the Marriott agents to redeem at the lowest level, and then when I was ready to book I would be able to upgrade by paying the difference. I really don't understand why if Marriott intended to change this long-standing practice they did not disclose it. Of course the only logical conclusion was that they wanted to avoid people redeeming higher value awards under the old reward chart and wanted to devalue awards without notice. That was an unfortunate approach, and if it was not what was intended it could have been quickly rectified by opening a short window for people to upgrade based on the old points differences.
However, if I had been offered the opportunity to upgrade based on the difference between the new awards levels, I would have done that too. While it would have costed me more, and strikes me as an inequitable approach, and least it would have allowed me to stay at the hotel of my choice - instead of being stuck in a lower category. Instead there are a lot of folks stuck with awards for a hotel level that they simply never stay at (most of my paid stays that earned the points were at Ritz Carlton hotels for example). But this topic has been beat to death, and it is what it is!
At the end of the day I was able to make it work and had a great awards trip, but