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Old Nov 24, 2018 | 6:03 pm
  #16  
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ive stayed in hyatt place that was sold out due to competition etc for kids

as noted many booked rooms did not pay what is 'currently' being charged

basically all chains can be IMHO very overpriced, because of name recognition

Originally Posted by rny321
St. Regis in Osaka was priced less than some lower category MPG hotels. Things like proximity to an event will obviously influence prices. When one of my children was competing at a national championship, the hotels closest to the venue were understandably more expensive than those that were farther away. The group rate for the Sheraton, which wasn't even that close to the venue, was about $50 more per night than the group rate for the Four Seasons. We stayed at the Four Seasons, which was about a mile away farther away, and used the free (except for tips) car service for the entire competition.
Originally Posted by s0ssos
Do you know whether the group makes any money from those rates?
revenue is not just from room rate at one hotel

Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Nov 24, 2018 at 6:09 pm
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Old Nov 24, 2018 | 7:58 pm
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There are a lot of factors here, if the Courtyard is more expensive than a full service then there must be demand to stay there. Most likely due to an event or conference that's using that hotel. Even if the 'nicer' hotel is cheaper many people prefer the convenience of staying in the same location as their group, or where the meeting rooms are, etc. Much easier to socialize that way.

Then there are cases where the Courtyard is better. I think Philadelphia is a good example of this, the Marriott there is fine but the rooms are nothing special. The Courtyard has some very interesting design in their rooms, overall I prefer it even without a lounge or some other full service amenities.
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Old Nov 24, 2018 | 10:05 pm
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Originally Posted by s0ssos
Yea, I don't get "group rates". Often they aren't cheaper than what you can get if you just look online.
As Duke787 notes, groups rates tend to be more complicated that some people know. In some cases, the entire room rate paid by the guest isn't actually 100% revenue for the Rooms Division of that hotel. If the group has functions at that hotel, a chunk of that money might earmarked as revenue for meeting rooms or catering. In that scenario, the group rate might be identical to the "normal" rate but they're getting (for example) a catered lunch that isn't charged separately to anyone in attendance.

For larger city-wide conventions, some groups will have the hotel pay out a certain amount for each group room to the convention center or visitor's bureau to subsidize the event. In that scenario, the attendees might not have to pay registration fee (or pay a higher one) to attend the event.

Also, as Duke787 writes, the cancelation terms and perks associated with a group rate might be different.
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Old Nov 24, 2018 | 11:00 pm
  #19  
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I find that the rate charged is far more indicative of the quality than the brand. Repeat business is crucial in the hospitality industry. Overcharging is a good way to accumulate disgruntled guests who will never return...

But if brand matters (elite recognition), then it's not difficult to choose the Marriott or Sheraton instead of the Courtyard when rates are similar...
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Old Nov 25, 2018 | 4:51 am
  #20  
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Long term, the market sets the rates, not the property. If the OP wants full service he should stay in full-service hotels. It's seems like the OP is really missing some fundamentals here.
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Old Nov 25, 2018 | 5:46 am
  #21  
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In many US downtown areas, the newer hotels are brands like Courtyard or Hilton Garden Inn. These hotels may actually be nicer than the local Marriott, Hilton, Sheraton simply because they are newer, and therefore may rightly deserve a price premium.
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Old Nov 25, 2018 | 7:30 am
  #22  
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Originally Posted by s0ssos
I don't mind the full-service ones in Asia where they have everything, including real suites and lounges. I mean the ones located in city centers in the US that charge basically the same rate as the full-service Marriott, but somehow have the customer service level of a generic Courtyard (or Fairfield Inn/Springhill Suites).
Why don't they train their staff to be more professional/better? Or is it still worse to work at a Courtyard in a city center than a full-service?
The staff at many of the full-service properties in North America aren't much better. It really comes down to who works at U.S. hotels.

In Asia and much of Europe, working in a hotel is a career. You see front desk clerks who studied hotel management and they're working their way up the ladder toward eventually becoming a hotel manager or general manager.

Over here, working in a hotel -- particularly behind the front desk -- is more of a "job." The front desk clerks here are, by and large, much older and with that bring bad habits.
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Old Nov 25, 2018 | 9:23 am
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Adelphos
In many US downtown areas, the newer hotels are brands like Courtyard or Hilton Garden Inn. These hotels may actually be nicer than the local Marriott, Hilton, Sheraton simply because they are newer, and therefore may rightly deserve a price premium.
Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
The staff at many of the full-service properties in North America aren't much better. It really comes down to who works at U.S. hotels.

In Asia and much of Europe, working in a hotel is a career. You see front desk clerks who studied hotel management and they're working their way up the ladder toward eventually becoming a hotel manager or general manager.

Over here, working in a hotel -- particularly behind the front desk -- is more of a "job." The front desk clerks here are, by and large, much older and with that bring bad habits.
Yes, as someone noted, the full-service Marriott is older and more tired (though it has a lounge), than this Courtyard which is old but not as tired yet.
The staff at the Marriott is better than the Courtyard, rates are usually similar.

And I do wonder how many front desk clerks in hotels in the US actually studied hotel management. I didn't even know there was such a thing until I met people studying in Asia/Europe for that degree.

The real issue I need to get over this "loyalty" business and just stay at other properties which are better, but cannot bring myself to give up the points and perks (which may be little, like $10 breakfast credit at Courtyards).
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Old Nov 25, 2018 | 9:42 am
  #24  
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That is exactly what chain hotels want. You are their ideal customer.

Particularly for people who travel a great deal, it strikes me as odd that on a one-night stay, they will twist themselves into a pretzel for what the chains call a suite and give up the comforts of a nice hotel where they might have a pleasurable experience.
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Old Nov 25, 2018 | 9:51 am
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Originally Posted by s0ssos
I didn't even know there was such a thing until I met people studying in Asia/Europe for that degree.
Many US colleges offer this program/degree. Cornell, an Ivy League university, has its School of Hotel Administration (SHA), a unique school within its business college, which many believe is the world's best program/school. A close friend is a 1986 graduate of the Hotel School who used to run a small family owned hotel outside of DC and is now the manager of a hotel/resort in the Middle East.
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Old Nov 25, 2018 | 11:07 am
  #26  
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Originally Posted by CJKatl
Many US colleges offer this program/degree. Cornell, an Ivy League university, has its School of Hotel Administration (SHA), a unique school within its business college, which many believe is the world's best program/school. A close friend is a 1986 graduate of the Hotel School who used to run a small family owned hotel outside of DC and is now the manager of a hotel/resort in the Middle East.
Michigan State, University of Houston, UNLV and Penn State also have noted hospitality programs.
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Old Nov 25, 2018 | 12:42 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by CJKatl
Many US colleges offer this program/degree. Cornell, an Ivy League university, has its School of Hotel Administration (SHA), a unique school within its business college, which many believe is the world's best program/school. A close friend is a 1986 graduate of the Hotel School who used to run a small family owned hotel outside of DC and is now the manager of a hotel/resort in the Middle East.
It only became part of the new combined business school very recently. The former GM of Raffles in Singapore is an alum as is a guy who has been GM at a string of RCs. Others specialize in hotel investments or hotel real estate transactions (Plaza NYC).

Anorher prestigious but more recent program is NYU, One of their recent grads participates on FT,
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Old Nov 25, 2018 | 1:07 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
It only became part of the new combined business school very recently. ...
I believe that is correct but the hotel school at Cornell has been around for a long time. My friend graduated in 1986. According to Wikipedia the school was founded in 1922. Ironically my friend's family actually donated the money for a food service facility at one of the schools listed @dayone. The facility carries the families names.
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Old Nov 25, 2018 | 1:10 pm
  #29  
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Originally Posted by dayone
Michigan State, University of Houston, UNLV and Penn State also have noted hospitality programs.
I would think hotel management is different than hospitality, but that's just me. A family friend's kid studied hospitality at Michigan State to become an event planner. Ignoring the fact that one shouldn't need a college degree to be an event planner, I don't think her education prepared her to be the manager of a 5-star luxury hotel. There's a reason so many of the managers and general managers at the best hotels went to hotel schools in Switzerland and France.
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Old Nov 25, 2018 | 5:46 pm
  #30  
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Originally Posted by hockeyinsider
I would think hotel management is different than hospitality, but that's just me. A family friend's kid studied hospitality at Michigan State to become an event planner.
These schools offer multi-discipline programs, which include hotel management. For example:
You can tailor your program to meet your needs and interests. Choose courses that offer a specific emphasis in restaurant management, hotel management, or institutional management. Study different facets of the industry such as real estate, human resource management, gaming, or hospitality management information systems.
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