pretentious Courtyards
Nov 24, 2018 | 8:47 am
#1
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pretentious Courtyards
I don't mind the full-service ones in Asia where they have everything, including real suites and lounges. I mean the ones located in city centers in the US that charge basically the same rate as the full-service Marriott, but somehow have the customer service level of a generic Courtyard (or Fairfield Inn/Springhill Suites).
Why don't they train their staff to be more professional/better? Or is it still worse to work at a Courtyard in a city center than a full-service?
Why don't they train their staff to be more professional/better? Or is it still worse to work at a Courtyard in a city center than a full-service?
Nov 24, 2018 | 10:24 am
#2
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I don't mind the full-service ones in Asia where they have everything, including real suites and lounges. I mean the ones located in city centers in the US that charge basically the same rate as the full-service Marriott, but somehow have the customer service level of a generic Courtyard (or Fairfield Inn/Springhill Suites).
Why don't they train their staff to be more professional/better? Or is it still worse to work at a Courtyard in a city center than a full-service?
Why don't they train their staff to be more professional/better? Or is it still worse to work at a Courtyard in a city center than a full-service?
It's simply a a matter of pricing and value. Hotels set their rates at what customers will pay. Then, as customers, we can vote with our wallets.
Nov 24, 2018 | 11:32 am
#3
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I was shocked at what a Courtyard in downtown Minneapolis was charging for valet garage parking early in SuperBowl week. IIRC it was $80, which is a laughable amount here, with downtown evening indoor garage self parking often $5-6 and restaurant valet parking usually in the $8-12 range with a few exceptions maybe ranging up to $15.
Nov 24, 2018 | 11:57 am
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I actually blame the CYs in Asia for this. They are the ones that go far and above the CY brand standard which puts your expectations out of line for CYs in the US. I am always pleasantly surprised when I go to Asia and stay at a CY, but what you experience in the US and Europe is what I expect when I select a CY instead of another Marriott brand.
The ones in Asia with lounges and real suites really shouldn't be flagged as CYs but have decided to go with that brand within the Marriott portfolio for whatever reason. IMO a FS Courtyard is itself an oxymoron and should clearly indicate that it's carrying the wrong brand flag and should be a FS Marriott which is the appropriate brand for an upscale, business-focused full service hotel.
The ones in Asia with lounges and real suites really shouldn't be flagged as CYs but have decided to go with that brand within the Marriott portfolio for whatever reason. IMO a FS Courtyard is itself an oxymoron and should clearly indicate that it's carrying the wrong brand flag and should be a FS Marriott which is the appropriate brand for an upscale, business-focused full service hotel.
Nov 24, 2018 | 12:37 pm
#6
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Pretentious is the wrong word choice here. Overpriced or underserviced may be more to the OP’s point.
As Kage indicated below, it’s all about supply and demand relative to the market in question and not always about the brand. Just as it’s true that CYs can be as pricey as full service hotels in some markets, it’s also true that everything in San Francisco is far more expensive than most markets irrelevant to brand.
Asian markets just aren’t as expensive as most in N America and Europe because the supply and demand quantities are so different. Yet Asian markets often deliver a higher standard of service than others, regardless of price point. Go figure.
It’s also a lot cheaper to build and to run/manage a hotel in Asia relative to N America and Europe, in case everyone misses that very important point. So the margins can be larger due to lower labor costs and other maintenance costs. That makes it a lot less expensive to build nicer and to provide nicer service and/or staff to higher staff/guest ratios.
As Kage indicated below, it’s all about supply and demand relative to the market in question and not always about the brand. Just as it’s true that CYs can be as pricey as full service hotels in some markets, it’s also true that everything in San Francisco is far more expensive than most markets irrelevant to brand.
Asian markets just aren’t as expensive as most in N America and Europe because the supply and demand quantities are so different. Yet Asian markets often deliver a higher standard of service than others, regardless of price point. Go figure.
It’s also a lot cheaper to build and to run/manage a hotel in Asia relative to N America and Europe, in case everyone misses that very important point. So the margins can be larger due to lower labor costs and other maintenance costs. That makes it a lot less expensive to build nicer and to provide nicer service and/or staff to higher staff/guest ratios.
Last edited by bhrubin; Nov 24, 2018 at 12:47 pm
Nov 24, 2018 | 1:17 pm
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As others have pointed out, pricing reflects supply and demand. As a customer, one may not be aware of the reason a lower quality option may cost more than a higher end property. On my last trip to Japan, the St. Regis in Osaka was priced less than some lower category MPG hotels.
Things like proximity to an event will obviously influence prices. When one of my children was competing at a national championship, the hotels closest to the venue were understandably more expensive than those that were farther away. The group rate for the Sheraton, which wasn't even that close to the venue, was about $50 more per night than the group rate for the Four Seasons. We stayed at the Four Seasons, which was about a mile away farther away, and used the free (except for tips) car service for the entire competition.
Things like proximity to an event will obviously influence prices. When one of my children was competing at a national championship, the hotels closest to the venue were understandably more expensive than those that were farther away. The group rate for the Sheraton, which wasn't even that close to the venue, was about $50 more per night than the group rate for the Four Seasons. We stayed at the Four Seasons, which was about a mile away farther away, and used the free (except for tips) car service for the entire competition.
Last edited by rny321; Nov 24, 2018 at 1:42 pm
Nov 24, 2018 | 1:37 pm
#9
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The group rate for the Sheraton, which wasn't even that close to the venue, was about $50 more per night than the Four Seasons. We stayed at the Four Seasons, which was about a mile away farther away, and used the free (except for tips) car service for the entire competition.
Nov 24, 2018 | 1:41 pm
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Nov 24, 2018 | 2:22 pm
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For example while our corporate rate is usually cheaper than publicly available rates, even when it's the same or within a couple of dollars, our corporate rate always includes cancellation until 6pm on the same day as arrival, waives any destination fees (e.g., the ridiculous fees that the NYC Marriott's charge), and includes access to the gym regardless of status (where such a perk is relevant).
Plus you never know what deal specifically that group has with the uber chain -- the hotels near our various global offices are ridiculously cheap even in major cities like Tokyo / London / Hong Kong / New York and it's likely due to the volume of stays they see at those locations from our company.
Nov 24, 2018 | 4:29 pm
#12
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Group / corporate rates are a tricky thing to ascribe broad strokes to. Some may include less onerous cancellation policies or other benefits that aren't included in the rates you find online making them a better option for the group even if the sticker price appears the same.
For example while our corporate rate is usually cheaper than publicly available rates, even when it's the same or within a couple of dollars, our corporate rate always includes cancellation until 6pm on the same day as arrival, waives any destination fees (e.g., the ridiculous fees that the NYC Marriott's charge), and includes access to the gym regardless of status (where such a perk is relevant).
Plus you never know what deal specifically that group has with the uber chain -- the hotels near our various global offices are ridiculously cheap even in major cities like Tokyo / London / Hong Kong / New York and it's likely due to the volume of stays they see at those locations from our company.
For example while our corporate rate is usually cheaper than publicly available rates, even when it's the same or within a couple of dollars, our corporate rate always includes cancellation until 6pm on the same day as arrival, waives any destination fees (e.g., the ridiculous fees that the NYC Marriott's charge), and includes access to the gym regardless of status (where such a perk is relevant).
Plus you never know what deal specifically that group has with the uber chain -- the hotels near our various global offices are ridiculously cheap even in major cities like Tokyo / London / Hong Kong / New York and it's likely due to the volume of stays they see at those locations from our company.
Nov 24, 2018 | 4:30 pm
#13
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I'm not sure why OP thinks it is "pretentious" to charge more than he thinks is good value. Either the property is over-charging for the market and will eventually fail or it is able to get those rates and it is OP who simply does not understand the particular market. My money is on Marriott having this right as Marriott has the data.
As to group and corporate rates, those often come with features which individual rates do not. Parking, late cancellation, resort/destination fees, and the like are often waived or discounted and that can be hard to factor into value for any one individual on any one stay.
As to group and corporate rates, those often come with features which individual rates do not. Parking, late cancellation, resort/destination fees, and the like are often waived or discounted and that can be hard to factor into value for any one individual on any one stay.
Nov 24, 2018 | 5:02 pm
#14
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Sometimes using the group rate can be the only way to get space during an event.