Another pathetic cut from marriott : Make a Green Choice >> -67%
Aug 23, 2018, 9:54 am
#61
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2014
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This reduction in benefits is not in isolation. If Marriott senses they will get away with a reduction, they will take it. This has felt for some time like a Democrat/Republican thing where even obvious facts are skewed by one's bias based on which legacy loyalty program you came from. This was a fair deal at SPG between the guest and the hotel. If it wasn't, then each hotel could have chosen to not do it. It undoubtedly saved hotels a great deal of expense as much of the cleaning staff is 'on call'. Now to offer a third of what was once offered changes the dynamic to the point of 'why bother'. So, to call it spiteful to rebel a bit and begin to cost the hotels money where they would have saved it before is the only way to have things like this revert to a fairer system. Even to have the cleaning staff enter and straighten up (without changing sheets and towels) costs the hotel some incremental amount.
For those saying, 'you should do it for the environment': Not traveling would be the best thing.
One other thing: What about the incremental cost of leaving a gratuity for having your room cleaned each day? This assumes of course that those suggesting a daily clean do such things.
For those saying, 'you should do it for the environment': Not traveling would be the best thing.
One other thing: What about the incremental cost of leaving a gratuity for having your room cleaned each day? This assumes of course that those suggesting a daily clean do such things.
Of course the green part of make a green choice is related not to nature but to US dollars color!
Aug 23, 2018, 9:55 am
#62
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: YQR
Programs: Nexus/GE, UA/MPG, Bonvoy Tit, LTP
Posts: 1,294
For years hotels offered guests the chance to decline new towels etc by hanging them up and I, like many, did just that. I suspect, however, that many didn't. Then SPG offered MAGC and as others have noted on a prolonged stay those points could add up. There was some inconvenience because, even with MAGC , you were still entitled to bathroom and coffee amenities etc, although sometimes it would take a couple of calls. It was obviously of benefit to the hotels because one I recall, Le Meridien Versailles in Montreal, contacted me ahead of time and offered double points ( i.e. 1000/ day) if I was prepared to let them know before they arrived, so that they could schedule staffing accordingly. Did the 500 SPG points make a difference. I would say yes because I was far less inclined to MAGC at a Four Points where it was only 250 points. Now with it being the equivalent of only 333 old SPG points, I suspect too that I won't bother. Nothing to do with spite, or being entitled, but more a recognition that the benefit is no longer worthwhile to me. It will indeed be interesting to see how it pans out over the long term.
Instead of points SPG also offered a $5 discount off your bill for each day, which I never took, but which shows the type of minimum value the hotel placed on it. Who knows how much 500 SPG points cost the hotel but I wouldn't be surprised if it was less. I suspect that the cost of Housekeeping is more than $10/ hour, so if a maid cleaned 2 rooms/ hour then the hotel is potentially the net loser in this equation. As an SPG Plat 75 I will stay but the whole takeover/ merger has been 95% negative, with multiple lost benefits ( decreased arrival bonus, decreased CC points, L loss of My 24 etc etc), while the only gain has been the increased number of properties. It was nice while it lasted but such is life and it isn't major on the big scheme of things.
Instead of points SPG also offered a $5 discount off your bill for each day, which I never took, but which shows the type of minimum value the hotel placed on it. Who knows how much 500 SPG points cost the hotel but I wouldn't be surprised if it was less. I suspect that the cost of Housekeeping is more than $10/ hour, so if a maid cleaned 2 rooms/ hour then the hotel is potentially the net loser in this equation. As an SPG Plat 75 I will stay but the whole takeover/ merger has been 95% negative, with multiple lost benefits ( decreased arrival bonus, decreased CC points, L loss of My 24 etc etc), while the only gain has been the increased number of properties. It was nice while it lasted but such is life and it isn't major on the big scheme of things.
Aug 23, 2018, 9:57 am
#63
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: lounge next door
Programs: *A Gold / ST Elite+ / OWS / EK G / HH Diam. / MR Tit / Hyatt GLOB / IHG Diam. / SL Jade / GHA Tit.
Posts: 1,527
For years hotels offered guests the chance to decline new towels etc by hanging them up and I, like many, did just that. Then SPG offered MAGC and as others have noted on a prolonged stay those points could add up. There was some inconvenience because, even with MAGC , you were still entitled to bathroom and coffee amenities etc, although sometimes it would take a couple of calls. It was obviously of benefit to the hotels because one I recall, Le Meridien Versailles in Montreal, contacted me ahead of time and offered double points ( i.e. 1000/ day) if I was prepared to let them know before they arrived, so that they could schedule staffing accordingly. Did the 500 SPG points make a difference. I would say yes because I was far less inclined to MAGC at a Four Points where it was only 250 points. Now with it being the equivalent of only 333 old SPG points, I suspect too that I won't bother. Nothing to do with spite, or being entitled, but more a recognition that the benefit is no longer worthwhile to me. It will indeed be interesting to see how it pans out over the long term.
Instead of points SPG also offered a $5 discount off your bill for each day, which I never took, but which shows the type of minimum value the hotel placed on it. Who knows how much 500 SPG points cost the hotel but I wouldn't be surprised if it was less. I suspect that the cost of Housekeeping is more than $10/ hour, so if a maid cleaned 2 rooms/ hour then the hotel is potentially the net loser in this equation. As an SPG Plat 75 I will stay but the whole takeover/ merger has been 95% negative, with multiple lost benefits ( decreased arrival bonus, decreased CC points, L loss of My 24 etc etc), while the only gain has been the increased number of properties. It was nice while it lasted but such is life and it isn't major on the big scheme of things.
Instead of points SPG also offered a $5 discount off your bill for each day, which I never took, but which shows the type of minimum value the hotel placed on it. Who knows how much 500 SPG points cost the hotel but I wouldn't be surprised if it was less. I suspect that the cost of Housekeeping is more than $10/ hour, so if a maid cleaned 2 rooms/ hour then the hotel is potentially the net loser in this equation. As an SPG Plat 75 I will stay but the whole takeover/ merger has been 95% negative, with multiple lost benefits ( decreased arrival bonus, decreased CC points, L loss of My 24 etc etc), while the only gain has been the increased number of properties. It was nice while it lasted but such is life and it isn't major on the big scheme of things.
Aug 23, 2018, 10:00 am
#64
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: lounge next door
Programs: *A Gold / ST Elite+ / OWS / EK G / HH Diam. / MR Tit / Hyatt GLOB / IHG Diam. / SL Jade / GHA Tit.
Posts: 1,527
For years hotels offered guests the chance to decline new towels etc by hanging them up and I, like many, did just that. I suspect, however, that many didn't. Then SPG offered MAGC and as others have noted on a prolonged stay those points could add up. There was some inconvenience because, even with MAGC , you were still entitled to bathroom and coffee amenities etc, although sometimes it would take a couple of calls. It was obviously of benefit to the hotels because one I recall, Le Meridien Versailles in Montreal, contacted me ahead of time and offered double points ( i.e. 1000/ day) if I was prepared to let them know before they arrived, so that they could schedule staffing accordingly. Did the 500 SPG points make a difference. I would say yes because I was far less inclined to MAGC at a Four Points where it was only 250 points. Now with it being the equivalent of only 333 old SPG points, I suspect too that I won't bother. Nothing to do with spite, or being entitled, but more a recognition that the benefit is no longer worthwhile to me. It will indeed be interesting to see how it pans out over the long term.
Instead of points SPG also offered a $5 discount off your bill for each day, which I never took, but which shows the type of minimum value the hotel placed on it. Who knows how much 500 SPG points cost the hotel but I wouldn't be surprised if it was less. I suspect that the cost of Housekeeping is more than $10/ hour, so if a maid cleaned 2 rooms/ hour then the hotel is potentially the net loser in this equation. As an SPG Plat 75 I will stay but the whole takeover/ merger has been 95% negative, with multiple lost benefits ( decreased arrival bonus, decreased CC points, L loss of My 24 etc etc), while the only gain has been the increased number of properties. It was nice while it lasted but such is life and it isn't major on the big scheme of things.
Instead of points SPG also offered a $5 discount off your bill for each day, which I never took, but which shows the type of minimum value the hotel placed on it. Who knows how much 500 SPG points cost the hotel but I wouldn't be surprised if it was less. I suspect that the cost of Housekeeping is more than $10/ hour, so if a maid cleaned 2 rooms/ hour then the hotel is potentially the net loser in this equation. As an SPG Plat 75 I will stay but the whole takeover/ merger has been 95% negative, with multiple lost benefits ( decreased arrival bonus, decreased CC points, L loss of My 24 etc etc), while the only gain has been the increased number of properties. It was nice while it lasted but such is life and it isn't major on the big scheme of things.
Aug 23, 2018, 10:24 am
#65
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: YQR
Programs: Nexus/GE, UA/MPG, Bonvoy Tit, LTP
Posts: 1,294
I now stand corrected. From a purely selfish perspective there has been a personal gain in the merger that I wasn't aware of until a few minutes ago. It seems that my stays in our Westin TS will now count towards status. A huge gain for myself. Most of our stays are leisure rather than business and it was getting hard to take 14 nights in a TS while still hitting 50 nights. That dilemma is now gone.
Aug 23, 2018, 10:24 am
#66
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: LAS
Programs: PA FT, TW Gold, NW/CO PE, VK Eagleflyer
Posts: 7,173
Aug 23, 2018, 10:45 am
#67
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SFOSJCOAK
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Posts: 7,581
Aug 23, 2018, 11:09 am
#68
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,172
Aug 23, 2018, 11:10 am
#69
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Got an update from an hotel who didn't post points from last week... they realised the new numbers are not updated in the system (SPG) so they started to panic when guest called to ask for posting points.
They went in touch with SPG coordinator who told them, they don't know if points will be posted but if in 10 days from 18 it is not they will have to contact guests, get their new SPG number and post manually... sounds crazy but true.
They went in touch with SPG coordinator who told them, they don't know if points will be posted but if in 10 days from 18 it is not they will have to contact guests, get their new SPG number and post manually... sounds crazy but true.
Aug 23, 2018, 11:38 am
#70
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Platinum/LT Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 5,594
Wow...69 posts already about a benefit I would never think of collecting. I'm against any cuts in benefits, generally speaking. I never made the Green Choice because it should be quite obvious that it's not about environmental "green", but rather about more "green" in Marriott's pockets. I disagree with the dishonest game so many corporations play regarding environmentalism.
But posts comparing something Marriott does now, as a new merged company, to what SPG did, seems odd to me. It kind of reminds me of how former Continental customers still compare everything United does to a company that was bought and no longer exists. I suppose a mourning period is ok, but hopefully it doesn't go for years and years like the CO/UA thing. At some point, just realize customers from both sides have some wins and losses when the company merges, and it's not about how one company destroys another, but rather about what the new larger company decides to do -- and whether you still want to be a customer.
But posts comparing something Marriott does now, as a new merged company, to what SPG did, seems odd to me. It kind of reminds me of how former Continental customers still compare everything United does to a company that was bought and no longer exists. I suppose a mourning period is ok, but hopefully it doesn't go for years and years like the CO/UA thing. At some point, just realize customers from both sides have some wins and losses when the company merges, and it's not about how one company destroys another, but rather about what the new larger company decides to do -- and whether you still want to be a customer.
Aug 23, 2018, 4:53 pm
#71
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: OZ Diamond, Jiffypark Manhattan Gold
Posts: 4,485
I think some people over estimate the hiring process for entry level jobs. When you leave your table a mess at the food court at the mall, the odds of them hiring another person to HELP the 1 guy already on staff, is low.
I work in ramp handling, when the airline sends us more flights, we try to hire more people, doesn't always work. What helps is when passengers check less bags, or less weight. Every 50lbs bag checked on that flight has to get lifted by someone at least 3 times during the process. Not checking a bag "hurts" the airline cuz most charge for bags now, but it helps the "little guy" at the bottom of the chain.
That's how I see housekeeping. I see that team of 2 ladies on my floor at the hotel and 20 room doors open. They've got whatever...4 hours to clean them all? So 240 (minutes) / 20 (rooms) = 12 minutes per room. So you reach whatever level of care they can provide in 12 minutes (this math is all hypothetical, lets not get into the nitpicking of how long an actual room takes to clean). If 10 of those rooms choose the "green" option, regardless of their motivation, they think they'll be stolen from, they wanna save water, they don't like people in their rooms...whatever, the math changes. 240/10 = 24 minutes per room. So the people who DO ask for their room to be cleaned may get less of a hurried service, and/or you might be able to get a room earlier when checking in, and/or maybe it just takes a little workload off of those cleaners.
If every room asked for housekeeping, every day, yes they'd be forced into hiring a commensurate number of people to clean, IF they can in fact find people to fill those jobs. But there's also probably a max # of housekeepers each hotel wants, so even if they need more, they probably won't hire, they'll just add more to the workload of those already on shift.
I think if you REALLY wanna ignore the green aspect of this choice, and just break it down to the economics for the locals, then what I'd say is you'd have to know the local labour market. In Canada we're constantly trying to get immigrants because we have too many jobs to fill and no one to fill them, now that goes against the cost of living in many places, but we're strictly talking jobs vs people to fill them. Whereas in some developing countries I've been to, the opposite seems to hold true. In Colombia I'm told of plenty of people who want jobs that can't get them for varying reason. So each place you stay at you'd have to take into account the local economics, if you wanted to base it strictly on that.
I work in ramp handling, when the airline sends us more flights, we try to hire more people, doesn't always work. What helps is when passengers check less bags, or less weight. Every 50lbs bag checked on that flight has to get lifted by someone at least 3 times during the process. Not checking a bag "hurts" the airline cuz most charge for bags now, but it helps the "little guy" at the bottom of the chain.
That's how I see housekeeping. I see that team of 2 ladies on my floor at the hotel and 20 room doors open. They've got whatever...4 hours to clean them all? So 240 (minutes) / 20 (rooms) = 12 minutes per room. So you reach whatever level of care they can provide in 12 minutes (this math is all hypothetical, lets not get into the nitpicking of how long an actual room takes to clean). If 10 of those rooms choose the "green" option, regardless of their motivation, they think they'll be stolen from, they wanna save water, they don't like people in their rooms...whatever, the math changes. 240/10 = 24 minutes per room. So the people who DO ask for their room to be cleaned may get less of a hurried service, and/or you might be able to get a room earlier when checking in, and/or maybe it just takes a little workload off of those cleaners.
If every room asked for housekeeping, every day, yes they'd be forced into hiring a commensurate number of people to clean, IF they can in fact find people to fill those jobs. But there's also probably a max # of housekeepers each hotel wants, so even if they need more, they probably won't hire, they'll just add more to the workload of those already on shift.
I think if you REALLY wanna ignore the green aspect of this choice, and just break it down to the economics for the locals, then what I'd say is you'd have to know the local labour market. In Canada we're constantly trying to get immigrants because we have too many jobs to fill and no one to fill them, now that goes against the cost of living in many places, but we're strictly talking jobs vs people to fill them. Whereas in some developing countries I've been to, the opposite seems to hold true. In Colombia I'm told of plenty of people who want jobs that can't get them for varying reason. So each place you stay at you'd have to take into account the local economics, if you wanted to base it strictly on that.
Aug 23, 2018, 6:22 pm
#72
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Starwood:Lifetime Platinum, Air Canada:Basic, Asiana:Lifetime Diamond Plus, ANA: Basic
Posts: 980
I work in ramp handling, when the airline sends us more flights, we try to hire more people, doesn't always work. What helps is when passengers check less bags, or less weight. Every 50lbs bag checked on that flight has to get lifted by someone at least 3 times during the process. Not checking a bag "hurts" the airline cuz most charge for bags now, but it helps the "little guy" at the bottom of the chain.
That's how I see housekeeping. I see that team of 2 ladies on my floor at the hotel and 20 room doors open. They've got whatever...4 hours to clean them all? So 240 (minutes) / 20 (rooms) = 12 minutes per room. So you reach whatever level of care they can provide in 12 minutes (this math is all hypothetical, lets not get into the nitpicking of how long an actual room takes to clean). If 10 of those rooms choose the "green" option, regardless of their motivation, they think they'll be stolen from, they wanna save water, they don't like people in their rooms...whatever, the math changes. 240/10 = 24 minutes per room. So the people who DO ask for their room to be cleaned may get less of a hurried service, and/or you might be able to get a room earlier when checking in, and/or maybe it just takes a little workload off of those cleaners.
If every room asked for housekeeping, every day, yes they'd be forced into hiring a commensurate number of people to clean, IF they can in fact find people to fill those jobs. But there's also probably a max # of housekeepers each hotel wants, so even if they need more, they probably won't hire, they'll just add more to the workload of those already on shift.
Then there is the medium term. If the trend is more people require room cleaning, they just need to hire more staff. If it is more expensive, they will raise the prices of the room and a equilibrium will happen where more expensive rooms means fewer guests and thus there is just enough work for the cleaning staff that prevents layoff nor new hire without compromising cleaning quality.
Aug 24, 2018, 2:59 am
#73
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: United 1K
Posts: 131
I feel bad for the franchised hotels in locations with high labor costs. The points are negligible compared to the labor costs of cleaning a room.
I recall that the Marriott Zurich almost begged me to accept MAGC. When I decline the offer at check in, the clerk asked if I was sure and recited statistics about the environmental impact.
I recall that the Marriott Zurich almost begged me to accept MAGC. When I decline the offer at check in, the clerk asked if I was sure and recited statistics about the environmental impact.
Aug 24, 2018, 3:03 am
#74
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: WAW
Programs: A3(*G), Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 2,534
Only upside to this is that now I no longer have to fight with my partner by arguing that it's a good idea to decline housekeeping every day on a multi-day stay.
Aug 24, 2018, 10:56 am
#75
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Programs: MYOB
Posts: 1,292
Pre Merger actions
Take MAGC option on a multi night stay
Exchange towels/washcloths with maid in hall (ask for soap/shampoo if needed) NEVER been refused. They have also taken garbage and given a new liner if needed.
Get the points some time later after check out
Post merger actions
---- See "pre merger actions" ----
"Points is points" It's not that big of a deal to get fresh supplies if needed. Lot of drama for nothing.
Take MAGC option on a multi night stay
Exchange towels/washcloths with maid in hall (ask for soap/shampoo if needed) NEVER been refused. They have also taken garbage and given a new liner if needed.
Get the points some time later after check out
Post merger actions
---- See "pre merger actions" ----
"Points is points" It's not that big of a deal to get fresh supplies if needed. Lot of drama for nothing.