Happy

You mean you have received both the point differences AND the refund of the original cancellation? Otherwise why would you be happy to let Marriott IT takes its sweet time to fix things so you enjoy the "arbitrage"? If there are no ADDITIONAL points refunded, just how the "arbitrage" works?

bhrubin

No, you misunderstand.

I booked the StR San Francisco pre-Aug 18 for 3 nights for 90K Starpoints (equivalent to 270K current points). After Aug 18, that same stay only cost 180K points due to the fact that there is no Category 8 yet. So I booked a new reservation after Aug 18 for 180K points and canceled the old pre-Aug 18 reservation that was 270K points. So the arbitrage allows me to get 90K points refunded.

I booked the StR Florence pre-Aug 18 for 5 nights in a junior suite for 280K Starpoints (equivalent to 840K current points). After Aug 18, that same stay only cost 440K points due to the fact that there is no Category 8 yet (and that Marriott has a slightly lower cost for a junior suite than SPG did). So the arbitrage allows me to get 400K points refunded.

I booked the StR Florence pre-Aug 18 for 3 nights for a regular room for 105K Starpoints (equivalent to 315K current points). After Aug 18, that same stay only cost 180K points for the same reasons (and because there is no peak charge until 2019). So the arbitrage allows me to get 135K points refunded.

I booked the StR Bal Harbour pre-Aug 18 for 5 nights for a regular room for 120K Starpoints (equivalent to 360K current points). After Aug 18, that same stay only cost 240K points for the same reasons. So I booked a new reservation after Aug 18 for 240K points and canceled the old pre-Aug 18 reservation that cost 360K points. So the arbitrage allows me to get 120K refunded.

The arbitrage worked out like crazy for me. So I'm not overly concerned with the delays in processing back my refunds. I can be patient for those returns!

Make sense now?

Happy

Thanks for the explanation. I guess we have different interpretation on "arbitration".

What you have described, is no more than rebooking with lower costs. it is a NORMAL thing and for myself I would much rather to have my point refund on the canceled reservation much sooner, like the usual 1 to 3 days if it cannot be instant.

Arbitrage to me is, or was, when the SPG pts translate to Marriott pts at a 1 to 3 ratio - so this makes the earn rate using the AMEX SPG cards is much better than using the Chase Marriott cards for NON stay spend. Now that is arbitrage to take advantage of an opportunity. Rebooking same rooms at lower costs effective August 18th is just a normal set up. I dont see how having much delayed refund of points on cancelled bookings would be of any advantage or to add any value on the rebooking. In fact it would only tie up points for many who are not as point rich as you when they need to rebook.

But it is still very good news you eventually get back the points that are yours to begin with.

bhrubin

That's probably because I said "arbitrage" and not "arbitration", my friend. Arbitrage is the buying of selling of assets; in this case, I was buying and selling hotel awards to maximize my return.

I'd rather have the point refund sooner, too. But i'm quite happy with waiting a few weeks and getting back more points than I should be getting because of this rare arbitrage opportunity. This refund delay is merely a symptom of the IT problems; eventually, refunds will be immediate, as they were with both SPG and Marriott.

Oh dear. I'm most sorry, but I don't think you have an understanding of what's really going on here.

My StR Florence award room was SPG Cat 7 costing 35K SPG points per night BEFORE Aug 18. For the 1:3 conversion, that's equivalent to 105K Marriott points per night. I booked it almost 8 months ago, not knowing that this award would go down in price.

In January, that StR Florence award night will be categorized as Cat 8 and will cost between 70-100K Marriott points per night (close to or more than I originally paid in points). But from Aug 18 until Jan 2019, the StR Florence award night now is only categorized as Marriott Cat 7 and costs only 60K Marriott points/night.

My StR Florence award originally cost the equivalent of 105K points per night, but as of Aug 18 it costs only 60K points per night. That's a pretty massive arbitrage opportunity. I'm getting to stay at one of the priciest hotels in the new Marriott portfolio for the equivalent of the W Austin--and don't even get charged for it being peak season.

FWIW, I ALSO enjoyed the arbitrage opportunity of the 1:3 conversion between SPG and Marriott points in May, when we enjoyed an award stay at the RC Kyoto for the equivalent of 23,333 SPG points/night at one of the best RC hotels in the world. Everyone recognized that the top RC properties suddenly became "cheaper" for awards from the SPG perspective. Just as everyone now recognizes that what should be Category 8 properties suddenly became "cheaper" Category 7 for awards in this strange post-Aug 18 period.

beachmiles

5DMarkIIguy

arbitrage is certainly not applicable in this rebooking situation. There is no opportunity to go back in time.

if you can book St Regis for 60k new points now, cancel and get back 30k old points now, that is arbitrage. Everything else is just refund-rebuy.

Happy

Thanks for the comment. I am glad you have the same view.

It is just basic rebooking when rates go down. I dont see how it can be a "rare" opportunity as category downward adjustment happens every single year.

Nor I could see because of the merger, some expensive SPG properties now can be booked at much lower points as an "arbitrage" because those SPG properties were way overpriced in the past. The down gauge just make them more align with the comparable Marriott properties.

Now what is a rare opportunity would be the ability to book those SPG properties used to be outrageously priced and "suite only" properties, such as those in the French Polynesia or Maldives or on the Greek Isles (not my liking but to many "aspirational" is important to them, but they may be very disappointed when they actually be there, such as the Mystique on Santorini! ;D)

beachfan

Happy

That is why I could not understand a delay of refunding pts on canceled booking could be in any way a good thing. It is like the bank tells you yes, you have this balance in your account but we can not let you withdraw it because our accounting system is down and no estimated time to fix it. Tough Luck.

Marathon Man

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mis spoke

margarita girl

I sure hope you didn't send that email out! LOL. I saw it before you deleted it and was just about to reply.

Marathon Man

You should have MSd the F**K outta SPG before the devauating merger and you would have so many points you could stomach the wait

Marathon Man

hahahaha yeah no I did not yet. I was cancelling a ton of things and many numbers and amounts were flying around w me and the agent who also admitted to not fully getting all the deets about what will be what. Anyway I think I did ok and in the end, he said my points should show up soon but said they are still experiencing some delays. Fortunately, I do in fact have well over a million of em...

Kacee

I cancelled a pre-integration award at W Beijing a couple days ago and the points refunded immediately. YMMV.

beachfan

Fixed my situation as @spgassist refunded the points on several reservations now that they went down to 60K and I have enough points now to book the new 7 night stay without having to cancel the old one. Will cancel them once points are being reliably and quickly returned.