Last edit by: FreakingFlyer
When reporting/posting here please give as many details as you can or you will be asked for it anyways. Copy and paste the text below and alter as needed.
1. SHUTdn by Bank, Credit Card info. (@m3x, chs3 ,c1t1 and brcl@y)
2. Length of account before closure and CL?
3. Average monthly account balance checking and savings?
4. Volume of ms per month and how many months?
5. Cycle CL?
6. Did you BP using both options?
- BP by issuing bank (@m3x, chs3, c1t1 and brcl@y)
- BP by Vis/MC
7. Did you spell out the bank's full name in an internet forum?
1. SHUTdn by Bank, Credit Card info. (@m3x, chs3 ,c1t1 and brcl@y)
2. Length of account before closure and CL?
3. Average monthly account balance checking and savings?
4. Volume of ms per month and how many months?
5. Cycle CL?
6. Did you BP using both options?
- BP by issuing bank (@m3x, chs3, c1t1 and brcl@y)
- BP by Vis/MC
7. Did you spell out the bank's full name in an internet forum?
2019 Shutdown Thread
#286
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,948
"To me, if I as a banker had someone with an income of say $200K who was spending >$300K a year on one card, it wouldn't take a mathematical genius to figure out that you are a patron we don't want (just based on credit risk)."
?? MSers are the BEST clients you could have if you're concerned about 'credit risk'. They pay early and in full 👍 Now, if you're concerned about profitability, that's another matter 😉
?? MSers are the BEST clients you could have if you're concerned about 'credit risk'. They pay early and in full 👍 Now, if you're concerned about profitability, that's another matter 😉
#287
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North Texas
Programs: SWA A-List, Marriott Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 188
#289
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 6,440
So while your spending may exceed your salary many times over, the CC company knows the categories where that money is gong.
Furthermore, many times, the CC company is actually reporting the spending to your companies travel agent or its ilk. It takes no time at all for this information to be categorized and reported as non-suspicious.
OTOH, cycling your credit to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars a month on the same sort of expense such as grocery stores or shopping malls will definitely raise a red flag, especially in someone with a credit line of $20K and an annual income of $60K.
#290
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North Texas
Programs: SWA A-List, Marriott Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 188
We presume that credit card companies don't follow our spending but that is just not true. AI is more than able, without human eyes, to differentiate spending due to travel (such as airfare, hotels and rental cars) from other forms of expenses such as dining and personal items such as purchases at malls.
So while your spending may exceed your salary many times over, the CC company knows the categories where that money is gong.
Furthermore, many times, the CC company is actually reporting the spending to your companies travel agent or its ilk. It takes no time at all for this information to be categorized and reported as non-suspicious.
OTOH, cycling your credit to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars a month on the same sort of expense such as grocery stores or shopping malls will definitely raise a red flag, especially in someone with a credit line of $20K and an annual income of $60K.
So while your spending may exceed your salary many times over, the CC company knows the categories where that money is gong.
Furthermore, many times, the CC company is actually reporting the spending to your companies travel agent or its ilk. It takes no time at all for this information to be categorized and reported as non-suspicious.
OTOH, cycling your credit to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars a month on the same sort of expense such as grocery stores or shopping malls will definitely raise a red flag, especially in someone with a credit line of $20K and an annual income of $60K.
#291
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: The place where it gets so hot in the summer some planes can't take off.
Programs: Marriott LT Titanium, WoH Globalist, National EE, United Platinum
Posts: 1,446
and when i use the corp card I don't get to keep the points
#292
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,422
So I have not been shut down, but a national bank called me the other day to tell me that they've detected "manufactured spending" in my account because they've noticed I've been depositing money orders into that account. They told me I can't do that because the regulators don't like it, and that I should stop. I obviously will stop. I didn't actually deposit "that many" MOs into that account, probably about $1000/month for a few years, although in the weeks before the phone call, I had deposited around $2000, all online. This makes me worry that ALL banks are now devoting more effort to monitor money order deposits, and that this will be the ultimate "problem" with doing credit card MS. I mean, if depositing $2000/month in proceeds is "a problem," how the heck are the heavy hitters playing this game without problems? Do you have to find a "stupid bank" that you don't care about and just hope they don't notice your MO deposits? And if a bank does notice, do they share this information in any way with other banks, or with regulators? It just feels to me that the risks of doing this totally legal activity how now increased, even for folks who just buy a few MOs a month to meet minimum spends.
#293
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,295
So I have not been shut down, but a national bank called me the other day to tell me that they've detected "manufactured spending" in my account because they've noticed I've been depositing money orders into that account. They told me I can't do that because the regulators don't like it, and that I should stop. I obviously will stop. I didn't actually deposit "that many" MOs into that account, probably about $1000/month for a few years, although in the weeks before the phone call, I had deposited around $2000, all online. This makes me worry that ALL banks are now devoting more effort to monitor money order deposits, and that this will be the ultimate "problem" with doing credit card MS. I mean, if depositing $2000/month in proceeds is "a problem," how the heck are the heavy hitters playing this game without problems? Do you have to find a "stupid bank" that you don't care about and just hope they don't notice your MO deposits? And if a bank does notice, do they share this information in any way with other banks, or with regulators? It just feels to me that the risks of doing this totally legal activity how now increased, even for folks who just buy a few MOs a month to meet minimum spends.
Did they really use the term "manufactured spending"?
#294
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 354
$2k does seem rather low to be a problem. Large banks have the manpower (and IT) to detect these things and meet regulatory requirements, small banks are generally exempted from a lot of regulations; it's really medium-sized banks that can't keep up with government regulations in these areas.
Did they really use the term "manufactured spending"?
Did they really use the term "manufactured spending"?
#295
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 6,440
So I have not been shut down, but a national bank called me the other day to tell me that they've detected "manufactured spending" in my account because they've noticed I've been depositing money orders into that account. They told me I can't do that because the regulators don't like it, and that I should stop. I obviously will stop. I didn't actually deposit "that many" MOs into that account, probably about $1000/month for a few years, although in the weeks before the phone call, I had deposited around $2000, all online.
Are you using them strictly to deposit your MOs and then either withdraw the money to somewhere else or worse, pay off credit card bills? I suspect that your relationship with that bank is quite superficial and you use it for your MS activities. In that case, you know that at some point you are going to get shut down but it appears that this bank is giving you a heads up. (Psst! don't believe it for a minute. I suspect that the next communication you will get from them with be the infamous 30 day letter telling you to close the account).
In any event, to answer your question, big hitters hit their bank big and expect the axe to fall. They then just move on to another bank and start over.
The best way to avoid shut downs is to avoid appearing that you are doing nothing more that shuttling funds from MO---Bank---CC payoff. Having a substantial presence in the bank wouldn't hurt either
#296
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,295
I suspect that your relationship with that bank is quite superficial and you use it for your MS activities. In that case, you know that at some point you are going to get shut down but it appears that this bank is giving you a heads up. (Psst! don't believe it for a minute. I suspect that the next communication you will get from them with be the infamous 30 day letter telling you to close the account).
#297
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,477
I assume you deposited a photo of the MO, uploaded to a website or mobile app -- and your usual process was to take physical MO's to the bank or ATM, right? In that case I suspect the deposit method was the trigger for the warning. I vaguely recall other DPs suggesting that such "remote" deposits are regarded with more suspicion and are not helpful in maintaining low profile.
#298
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: DUB-BOS
Programs: various
Posts: 3,690
Remote deposits trip way more alarms than ATM or teller deposits
#299
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: SFO/LAX/SAN/LAS/DFW/JFK/LGA/EWR/MIA
Posts: 1,073
So I have not been shut down, but a national bank called me the other day to tell me that they've detected "manufactured spending" in my account because they've noticed I've been depositing money orders into that account. They told me I can't do that because the regulators don't like it, and that I should stop. I obviously will stop. I didn't actually deposit "that many" MOs into that account, probably about $1000/month for a few years, although in the weeks before the phone call, I had deposited around $2000, all online. This makes me worry that ALL banks are now devoting more effort to monitor money order deposits, and that this will be the ultimate "problem" with doing credit card MS. I mean, if depositing $2000/month in proceeds is "a problem," how the heck are the heavy hitters playing this game without problems? Do you have to find a "stupid bank" that you don't care about and just hope they don't notice your MO deposits? And if a bank does notice, do they share this information in any way with other banks, or with regulators? It just feels to me that the risks of doing this totally legal activity how now increased, even for folks who just buy a few MOs a month to meet minimum spends.
Last edited by GundamWing01; Sep 20, 2019 at 10:02 am
#300
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 27
Not sure if I'm shut down by Citi but my CL didn't reset until 10 days after paying the card (been cycling CL this month). Went to SM to get more GC and got declined. Called Citi the next day and informed me that I need to call their high risk management department. I'm assuming they'll be asking me about my recent spending behaviors. Anyone have DP on whether this will lead to a shutdown?