So, an IRS Special Agent just stopped by...
Apr 8, 2015, 9:56 am
#166
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Posts: 1,139
In a civil matter they do, in a criminal one they absolutely do not have to do that.
Apr 8, 2015, 7:37 pm
#168
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Posts: 1,139
I deleted my post, not because I feel anything I said was wrong, but because I am tired of FT being full of posters like you that contribute little or nothing, nitpick everyone's comments, take comments out of context, hijack every thread into a different direction, etc.
Apr 8, 2015, 9:21 pm
#170
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 116
From http://www.irs.gov/irm/part34/irm_34-006-003.html
Just sayin'
Originally Posted by InternalRevenueManual
34.6.3.6.3 (08-11-2004)
Actions to Obtain Approval for Dispensing with the Notice Requirements
In general when a summons is issued to a third party, the Service is required to issue a notice to the taxpayer or other person who is identified in the description of records sought. IRC 7609(g) provides a limited exception where the Service can dispense with the giving of notice. To dispense with notice under IRC 7609(a) and (b), the United States district court for the district within which the person summoned resides or is found must enter an order, on the basis of the facts and circumstances alleged, that there is reasonable cause to believe the giving of notice may lead to attempts to conceal, destroy, or alter records relevant to the examination, to prevent the communication of information from other persons through intimidation, bribery, or collusion, or to flee to avoid prosecution, testifying, or production of records. IRC 7609(g). The determination by the court will be ex parte and solely upon petition and supporting affidavits.
Actions to Obtain Approval for Dispensing with the Notice Requirements
In general when a summons is issued to a third party, the Service is required to issue a notice to the taxpayer or other person who is identified in the description of records sought. IRC 7609(g) provides a limited exception where the Service can dispense with the giving of notice. To dispense with notice under IRC 7609(a) and (b), the United States district court for the district within which the person summoned resides or is found must enter an order, on the basis of the facts and circumstances alleged, that there is reasonable cause to believe the giving of notice may lead to attempts to conceal, destroy, or alter records relevant to the examination, to prevent the communication of information from other persons through intimidation, bribery, or collusion, or to flee to avoid prosecution, testifying, or production of records. IRC 7609(g). The determination by the court will be ex parte and solely upon petition and supporting affidavits.
Apr 9, 2015, 6:19 am
#172
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 97
[QUOTE=tuphat;24635145]Just to pick out one of several points of misinformation in your post:
If a SAR was filed certain information can be produced without legal process under the supporting docs guidelines.
http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/..._Guidance.html
If a SAR was filed certain information can be produced without legal process under the supporting docs guidelines.
http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/..._Guidance.html
Last edited by AnalystGuy; Apr 9, 2015 at 6:41 am Reason: Link
Apr 9, 2015, 7:05 am
#173
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,322
And I am tired of people making statements of fact/law without offering support or citation when asked. You said that 3rd party summon process was different for criminal vs. civil, I disagreed and asked for cite. What's wrong with that??
Apr 9, 2015, 7:08 am
#174
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,322
[QUOTE=AnalystGuy;24639601]
The interpretation that FinCEN offers is with respect to RFPA only. Each member agency must still follow its own procedures.
Edit to add: Further, it applies only to "supporting documentation" for the SAR, i.e., whatever the bank used as the basis for the SAR and segregated in the SAR file. Other documentation is subject to RFPA limits, procedures, etc.
Just to pick out one of several points of misinformation in your post:
If a SAR was filed certain information can be produced without legal process under the supporting docs guidelines.
http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/..._Guidance.html
If a SAR was filed certain information can be produced without legal process under the supporting docs guidelines.
http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/..._Guidance.html
Edit to add: Further, it applies only to "supporting documentation" for the SAR, i.e., whatever the bank used as the basis for the SAR and segregated in the SAR file. Other documentation is subject to RFPA limits, procedures, etc.
Last edited by tuphat; Apr 9, 2015 at 7:16 am
Apr 9, 2015, 8:20 am
#175
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 97
[QUOTE=tuphat;24639798]
The interpretation that FinCEN offers is with respect to RFPA only. Each member agency must still follow its own procedures.
Edit to add: Further, it applies only to "supporting documentation" for the SAR, i.e., whatever the bank used as the basis for the SAR and segregated in the SAR file. Other documentation is subject to RFPA limits, procedures, etc.
Yes, that's correct. That may have been the reason for the local law enforcement?
The supporting documentation can be broad. Balances, transaction history, other account histiry, etc.
The interpretation that FinCEN offers is with respect to RFPA only. Each member agency must still follow its own procedures.
Edit to add: Further, it applies only to "supporting documentation" for the SAR, i.e., whatever the bank used as the basis for the SAR and segregated in the SAR file. Other documentation is subject to RFPA limits, procedures, etc.
The supporting documentation can be broad. Balances, transaction history, other account histiry, etc.
Apr 9, 2015, 3:11 pm
#176
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,322
[QUOTE=AnalystGuy;24640107]
Local law enforcement can't trump a federal statute at a federally-chartered institution. They'd still need an enforceable summons.
The supporting documentation can't simply be everything under the sun, it's what the bank relied upon in preparing the SAR, and contemporaneously segregated into a separate file (physical or electronic).
The supporting documentation can't simply be everything under the sun, it's what the bank relied upon in preparing the SAR, and contemporaneously segregated into a separate file (physical or electronic).
Apr 10, 2015, 7:34 am
#178
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,322