PainCorp

Queue the numerous posts that say the exact same thing is happening to this forum because of the flood of useless, repeated posts.

jan_believes

Well, there I go...

Let me know when it's time to use that dusty phrase:

"Well, folks, it's been real..."

flyertalkingallday

This forum is just as good as dead to me. It used to be mostly pioneers and critical thinkers who were willing to step out of their comfort zone while exerting control as to not result in AA toward themselves or to end deals for others by drawing unnecessary attention. The tipping point appears to have been reached since the demise of VRs at CVS, with more of the experienced MSers keeping deals to themselves and continuing to experiment, whereas we're seeing more new members who want to be spoonfed information and repeat the same questions that should be asked in the Information Desk.

silver6054

That's pretty recent (April)! The thread was started in Dec, and (presumably) reflected the OPs belief that things had gone down hill for a while before that.

exmike

The VR demise at CVS combined with thousands of noobs applying for the citi exec that suddenly cant spend 10k is probably a large source of the number of people begging to be spoonfed MS techniques

silver4300

I've been in the MS game for several years, yet am fairly new to FT. I started slow, learned along the way, and gradually built relations with cashiers, managers, bank clerks etc. Yet, being a fairly new to FT, I don't know what it was like "back in the day".

I really like MMs posts advocating for being good stewards of the craft and it's got me thinking of how I can be a better steward. One thing I try to do is to leave a small footprint behind me.

I've noticed many novices on the board seem driven by immediate gratification and don't have the patience to research, develop skills and build a base of knowledge and support. And, are often not open to suggestions. There are many examples, but here are a few I have noticed.

1. A novice MSer attempts a phone billpay with VGCs. It was clearly stated over and over in the thread and wiki that VGCs are not accepted. The phone csrs are very polite and accommodating and will try alternate debit cards if one fails. The novice MSer takes advantage of this by having the csr attempt several different VGCs, which of course all fail. It was indicated in the thread and to the MSer not to do this because 1. it doesn't work and 2. it clogs up phone lines and frustrates CSRs which harms this avenue of MS. Yet, being over his/her head, the MSers *needed* that bp now, thought maybe it was just the CSR and called in to try again.

2. A novice MSer had received many hundreds of dollars in cashback in his/her recent statement. Yet, noticed that a regular grocery store purchase was miscoded and did not receive the bonus. S/he was missing a few dollars in cb and was quite upset. Others posted that technically, all the GC purchases are excluded from cb, so it is not a good idea to call in and draw attention to the MS. Considering many hundreds in cb where earned, missing a few dollars is trivial. The novice MSer calls anyway, puts up a big stink and ends up speaking with a supervisor.

3. A novice MSer liquidates 25 $200 VGCs at a wm register. After being told that this is inappropriate, the novice MSer says the cashier was friendly and did MS as well - yet saw nothing wrong with tying up a cashier/register for an extended period of time.

4. A novice MSer opens a new pp account. He loads $500 then transfers the $500 to his bank within an hour. Then, wonders why his pp account was shutdown.

grayland

Sadly these are everyday examples now. In the past there were occasional iposts like these but now it is a daily happening.
In most cases the warning not to do the action is on the very page where the foolish post is made.

We seem to be having an abundance of morons who feel entitled to MS benefits from vendors and to be babysat by FT members. Demanding is the new norm.
They seem to be sent here by other sites.

flyertalkingallday

Other sites that include blogs with circles and arrows that make it seem possible to obtain low-cost or free travel benefits with little or no effort. Then the newbies freak out when venues of MS are shut down or limited severely. The veteran MSers are tired of newbies demanding to be spoonfed basic information, or worse, bloggers repackaging the information into the form of circles and arrows for the masses. The more that newbies demand to be spoonfed information from others' hard work, the more that veteran MSers will refuse to share information, or stop visiting this forum altogether.

FlightNurse

Yes, and lack of reading skills is another issue. I love it when they post a question stating they have "read" the thread, then post a question, that was answered a couple of post before thiers. When pointing out to the noob that it was answered in post XXX they get snippy. But I agree that the noobs want the immediate gratification because they have 40K of Mim spend to get done without the proper preparation.... When you tell them to start small and work thier way up, they don't want to hear about that.

FlightNurse

Don't blame MMS for this, I learned a lot from that blog, it falls all on the noob, they want the 200K miles like now.. If it wasn't for MMS, I wouldn't have gotten into this game. He makes it very easy to understand, but it also take some of your own time to figure it all out and get comfortable with it all. When the noob goes out and have a 40K min spend they freakout and come here...

rabatt

It isn't so much the novice aspect, as it is their basic personality. When anything becomes widely available to the masses, you are going to attract a higher percentage of undesirable people. The MS novices who don't read, ignore advice, etc., do this in other aspects of their life. A "sense of entitlement" is rampant in so many aspects of life - not just MS.

Also, the novices who are being responsible, probably are keeping a low-profile: They are busy reading, trying out things slowly, etc.

HighFive

Well said. Trying to limit access to this information would be even worse.

FTR 787

great examples ^

thread links to these 2? ... would love to see how the situation ended for both those perps

I think ex 3, 4 were both newuser0

exmike

says one n00b quoting another.

Basically, old timers will want to limit access, n00bs will not. I think we have a trend here.

PaulMSN

Actually, it seems to be mostly people who were newbies in the last few years. Look at the join dates.

The real divide, though, is between people who see this as a gold mine and people who see it as a hobby. Those whose avarice causes them to resent others finding out about the opportunities rationalize it as not liking the simple questions that newbies pose. They could easily ignore them as the mods constantly advise, but they do not -- they attack, in gangs.