Apr 3, 2013, 11:44 am
Last edit by: markr33
Read the wiki before posting a question.
Check your BB load limits BEFORE asking in this thread about "tender not allowed" or any other errors.
Bluebird website. There's no need to buy a Bluebird kit in-store; sign-up free on the website.
The original FlyerTalk discussion thread is here: Wal-Mart, Amex take on banks with Bluebird debit card
Bluebird Load Limits:
*For online debit load, only use of bank-issued cards is allowed. The use of pre-paid debit cards (Netspend, Paypower, Univision, Paypal, etc.) and VGC/MGC/AGCs is not allowed. Your account will be flagged upon first/second attempt. If blocked, call Account Protection Services at 1-800-660-2454 to clear it (9am-8pm EST, Mon-Fri).
The day currently resets around midnight Eastern/11pm Central/10pm Mountain/9pm Pacific.
For online bill pay
Loading with debit card at Walmart
Self checkout does not work for loading.
Many Walmart stores are enforcing a rule against the use of gift cards when loading, even though the register and the MCE do not enforce. Do not make your prepaid debit cards visible. Show them a bank debit card if asked. Otherwise, you may be asked by management to never visit the MC again to load with gift cards.
Loads at register over $500 will sometimes trigger ID requirement. There is a limit of four swipes per transaction; this means your card plus three payments.
If your card doesn't say "debit" on the front, it isn't a debit card.
Please see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...bit-cards.html for additional information on using prepaid debit cards.
Training a WM cashier:
Error Messages:
DEBIT NOT AVAILABLE
Received when I used a card I thought I had activated but hadn't.
DEBIT NOT APPROVED
Received when the card's monthly load limit had been reached.
TENDER NOT ALLOWED
Card was incorrectly read, or wrong PIN entered .
HOST TIMEOUT
Connection problems. The GC may be drained but the transaction should reverse itself, and funds will become available again. Try again later.
UPdate Notice on Sept 15, 2014.
Some minor changes on the ATM limits and fees:
• Out-of-Network ATM Fees:
Beginning October 30, 2014, the fee for withdrawing funds using out-of-network ATMs will increase from $2.00 to $2.50. ATM operator fees may also apply.
• Free In-Network MoneyPass® ATMs:
Effective immediately, all Bluebird Customers can withdraw funds for free when using in-network MoneyPass ATMs. You can find one of the more than 24,000 MoneyPass ATMs below.
• ATM Withdrawal Limits Increase:
We have increased your daily ATM limit, so you can withdraw up to $750 per day. Your monthly ATM withdrawal limit will remain at $2,000.
-----
•If you use Wal-Mart Savings Catcher, you can earn double rewards by redeeming to your BlueBird account <== Doubling of savings catcher amounts ended sometime in the summer of 2015.
Check your BB load limits BEFORE asking in this thread about "tender not allowed" or any other errors.
Bluebird website. There's no need to buy a Bluebird kit in-store; sign-up free on the website.
The original FlyerTalk discussion thread is here: Wal-Mart, Amex take on banks with Bluebird debit card
Bluebird Load Limits:
- BB loading via VR or WM load: $2,500/day and $5,000 total per calendar month
- Online Debit Card Load* - $200/day and $1,000/month
- Checking/Savings Account - $2,000/month
- Checks - $2,000/day and $10,000/month
- ATM Withdrawals - $750/day and $2,000/month
*For online debit load, only use of bank-issued cards is allowed. The use of pre-paid debit cards (Netspend, Paypower, Univision, Paypal, etc.) and VGC/MGC/AGCs is not allowed. Your account will be flagged upon first/second attempt. If blocked, call Account Protection Services at 1-800-660-2454 to clear it (9am-8pm EST, Mon-Fri).
The day currently resets around midnight Eastern/11pm Central/10pm Mountain/9pm Pacific.
For online bill pay
- You can pay the credit card that you used to buy reloads
- Error 1302 means that you have 1 pending payment the same amount as the one you just submitted. For example, 1000 bill pay to sapphire preferred from Friday and then on Saturday you submit another bill pay for 1000 to sapphire preferred, you will get this error.
- Tip: if using online bill pay to the same place multiple times, vary your amounts by $0.01 to make it easier to track since your confirmation number does not match the tracking number on your credit card statement
Loading with debit card at Walmart
Self checkout does not work for loading.
Many Walmart stores are enforcing a rule against the use of gift cards when loading, even though the register and the MCE do not enforce. Do not make your prepaid debit cards visible. Show them a bank debit card if asked. Otherwise, you may be asked by management to never visit the MC again to load with gift cards.
Loads at register over $500 will sometimes trigger ID requirement. There is a limit of four swipes per transaction; this means your card plus three payments.
If your card doesn't say "debit" on the front, it isn't a debit card.
Please see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...bit-cards.html for additional information on using prepaid debit cards.
Training a WM cashier:
- If the WM cashier doesn't know how to load the card, advise them to enter "70" then press "action code".
- If you are using a temp card that doesn't have your name on it, you can swipe the card from your side of the terminal. The WM rep never has to touch any of your cards. The screen will say "enter account." That is your prompt to slide the card.
- The terminal will ask the WM employee if you are loading in multiples of $2000. Advise them to enter "no."
- Avoid saying gift card. Always refer to your card as a debit card.
Error Messages:
DEBIT NOT AVAILABLE
Received when I used a card I thought I had activated but hadn't.
DEBIT NOT APPROVED
Received when the card's monthly load limit had been reached.
TENDER NOT ALLOWED
Card was incorrectly read, or wrong PIN entered .
HOST TIMEOUT
Connection problems. The GC may be drained but the transaction should reverse itself, and funds will become available again. Try again later.
UPdate Notice on Sept 15, 2014.
Some minor changes on the ATM limits and fees:
• Out-of-Network ATM Fees:
Beginning October 30, 2014, the fee for withdrawing funds using out-of-network ATMs will increase from $2.00 to $2.50. ATM operator fees may also apply.
• Free In-Network MoneyPass® ATMs:
Effective immediately, all Bluebird Customers can withdraw funds for free when using in-network MoneyPass ATMs. You can find one of the more than 24,000 MoneyPass ATMs below.
• ATM Withdrawal Limits Increase:
We have increased your daily ATM limit, so you can withdraw up to $750 per day. Your monthly ATM withdrawal limit will remain at $2,000.
-----
•If you use Wal-Mart Savings Catcher, you can earn double rewards by redeeming to your BlueBird account <== Doubling of savings catcher amounts ended sometime in the summer of 2015.
Bluebird prepaid debit, now with FDIC insurance and paper checks (2013-2014)
Jun 3, 2013, 4:02 pm
#886
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: UA Plat MM, AA Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hilton Gold, IHG Plat, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 5,015
The sentiment regarding Amex credit cards may be understandable, not so much others. But with Amex dropping the HHonors card bonus at drugstores, few others still offering drugstore category bonuses, and VRs hard to find or use CC's to buy, I'm not using Amex cards to purchase GCs much anymore. Chase is the biggest in this space with their no-fee GCs, and 5x Ink card purchases of $200 GCs at office supply stores.
VRs in my area are now very easy to buy ever since CVS started putting them behind the counter. The greedy hogs can no longer scoop up all the VR cards in CVS inventory here as they used to do routinely - or maybe they have just lost interest in BB - or have switched to GCs.
One question - don't you also have to go to Walmart to put GCs in your BB account? That would be a hassle for those of us who don't live down the street from a Walmart store (e.g., in DC proper or in Manhattan). I know you can also do it online, but that costs $2 per transaction (and is limited to $100 per transaction).
Last edited by DCBob; Jun 3, 2013 at 4:08 pm
Jun 3, 2013, 4:09 pm
#887
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Down South, The Desert
Programs: Marriot Rewards, Southwest Rapid rewards, Emerald Club, Avis Preferred
Posts: 1,871
Understandable, but Starpoints earned with the Starwood Amex are still worth more than the Hilton Amex even with 6X HH points at drugstores (which is no longer offered as you point out).
VRs in my area are now very easy to buy ever since CVS started putting them behind the counter. The greedy hogs can no longer scoop up all the VR cards in CVS inventory here as they used to do routinely - or maybe they have just lost interest in BB - or have switched to GCs.
One question - don't you also have to go to Walmart to put GCs in your BB account? That would be a hassle for those of us who don't live down the street from a Walmart store (e.g., in DC proper or in Manhattan). I know you can also do it online, but that costs $2 per transaction (and is limited to $100 per transaction).
VRs in my area are now very easy to buy ever since CVS started putting them behind the counter. The greedy hogs can no longer scoop up all the VR cards in CVS inventory here as they used to do routinely - or maybe they have just lost interest in BB - or have switched to GCs.
One question - don't you also have to go to Walmart to put GCs in your BB account? That would be a hassle for those of us who don't live down the street from a Walmart store (e.g., in DC proper or in Manhattan). I know you can also do it online, but that costs $2 per transaction (and is limited to $100 per transaction).
Jun 3, 2013, 4:30 pm
#888
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,396
In order to get a top category SPG property you would need to spend $30-35k at 1x. (top category priced at 30-35k points)
In order to get a top category HHonors property you would need to spend between $11,666 - 15,833. (category priced at 70-95k points / 6points per dollar).
Obviously this is only an example at one category level, and does not take into account cash and points, 5th night free, AXON, etc - but I still feel the HHonors program can offer decent value, since there are so many ways to earn points. My strategy right now is to use SPG for non-bonus categories and use HHonors Amex for groceries and gas (restaurants go on Sapphire, or Freedom for this quarter).
Jun 3, 2013, 5:14 pm
#889
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: UA Plat MM, AA Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hilton Gold, IHG Plat, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 5,015
I know its kind of a moot point since the bonus has ended - but how do you figure that Starwood at 1x is better than HHonors at 6x?
In order to get a top category SPG property you would need to spend $30-35k at 1x. (top category priced at 30-35k points)
In order to get a top category HHonors property you would need to spend between $11,666 - 15,833. (category priced at 70-95k points / 6points per dollar).
Obviously this is only an example at one category level, and does not take into account cash and points, 5th night free, AXON, etc - but I still feel the HHonors program can offer decent value, since there are so many ways to earn points. My strategy right now is to use SPG for non-bonus categories and use HHonors Amex for groceries and gas (restaurants go on Sapphire, or Freedom for this quarter).
In order to get a top category SPG property you would need to spend $30-35k at 1x. (top category priced at 30-35k points)
In order to get a top category HHonors property you would need to spend between $11,666 - 15,833. (category priced at 70-95k points / 6points per dollar).
Obviously this is only an example at one category level, and does not take into account cash and points, 5th night free, AXON, etc - but I still feel the HHonors program can offer decent value, since there are so many ways to earn points. My strategy right now is to use SPG for non-bonus categories and use HHonors Amex for groceries and gas (restaurants go on Sapphire, or Freedom for this quarter).
Here's a real life example:
If you want to stay at the Sheraton New York Times Square, it's a category 5 and the rate is 12K Starpoints on 6/22/2013.
A comparable Hilton family hotel to the Sheraton would be the DoubleTree Times Square. It's a category 10 and the rate is 95K per night on 6/22/2013 (note that it's 95K per night 7 out of 12 months of the year, so this is the usual HH points rate).
I would need to spend $12K to get the Sheraton and $15.8K to get the DoubleTree (and that's at 6X HH points per dollar - no longer possible with the HH Amex if you are buying at CVS). That's one example and we can each find other examples showing the other program to be a better buy.
Jun 3, 2013, 7:42 pm
#890
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: A few
Posts: 5,499
Well, I pay for my auction house purchases, mortgage, electric utility, property taxes, and condo fees using BB. You can't usually use a credit or debit card for those bills, and in cases when you can, there is a hefty fee of 2% or more for the privilege of doing so. That's in addition to paying some CC bills (not Amex, even though I can) and getting free ATM withdrawals when I'm not near my own bank. How do you deal with any of those bills now?
I stopped playing this game pretty quickly. At first I was using billpay to pay like garden contractor, kids swim dues etc. Then it dawned on me that is just a royal pain in the backside so I just pay them all the way I used to with a simple check. BB meanwhile is on an infinite loop credit card funding-credit card repayment. Amongst a whole host of other prepaids!!!
Jun 3, 2013, 7:47 pm
#891
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New York, NY
Programs: Delta GM, SPG Gold
Posts: 161
Well, I pay for my auction house purchases, mortgage, electric utility, property taxes, and condo fees using BB. You can't usually use a credit or debit card for those bills, and in cases when you can, there is a hefty fee of 2% or more for the privilege of doing so. That's in addition to paying some CC bills (not Amex, even though I can) and getting free ATM withdrawals when I'm not near my own bank. How do you deal with any of those bills now?
I stopped playing this game pretty quickly. At first I was using billpay to pay like garden contractor, kids swim dues etc. Then it dawned on me that is just a royal pain in the backside so I just pay them all the way I used to with a simple check. BB meanwhile is on an infinite loop credit card funding-credit card repayment. Amongst a whole host of other prepaids!!!
Jun 3, 2013, 7:52 pm
#892
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: UA Plat MM, AA Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hilton Gold, IHG Plat, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 5,015
You are missing the point. What is the point of paying all those bills via BB? Once I have funded BB, I've earned the points. I don't earn any more points if I liquidate BB by paying off my credit card or paying random stuff like mortgages.
I stopped playing this game pretty quickly. At first I was using billpay to pay like garden contractor, kids swim dues etc. Then it dawned on me that is just a royal pain in the backside so I just pay them all the way I used to with a simple check. BB meanwhile is on an infinite loop credit card funding-credit card repayment. Amongst a whole host of other prepaids!!!
I stopped playing this game pretty quickly. At first I was using billpay to pay like garden contractor, kids swim dues etc. Then it dawned on me that is just a royal pain in the backside so I just pay them all the way I used to with a simple check. BB meanwhile is on an infinite loop credit card funding-credit card repayment. Amongst a whole host of other prepaids!!!
Jun 3, 2013, 7:54 pm
#893
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: A few
Posts: 5,499
If you pay them via BB you are using funds that you generated via points. If you write them a check you are paying them with funds that didn't generate you any points. I added $2500 to my bb account this month via VRs and gift cards and will use that to pay my rent. Instead of just writing a check and getting no points. Yes, I got the points when I bought the VRs and gift cards, but I treat BB as a bank account that I funded via credit card and subsequent got points. I hope that makes sense.
Me I use a regular checking account to do all my regular checking account crap like paying mortgage and other things that don't take a credit card.
Then separately I buy $10k worth of vanilla reloads each month and load them on to me and my wife's BB. I immediately repay the credit card that funded the VR purchases with the funds in BB.
I actually prefer this from a tracking perspective as the card that bought all the vanilla has a $79 balance ($3.95 x 20) which I can repay from normal checking funds, and my checking account pays my mortgage. Not trying to trace my credit card buying a vanilla card loading bluebird paying mortgage and maybe half a dozen other bills
And to be 100% clear, I am not missing out on any points whatsoever. I am completely maximizing BB.
Jun 3, 2013, 7:55 pm
#894
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 809
If you pay them via BB you are using funds that you generated via points. If you write them a check you are paying them with funds that didn't generate you any points. I added $2500 to my bb account this month via VRs and gift cards and will use that to pay my rent. Instead of just writing a check and getting no points. Yes, I got the points when I bought the VRs and gift cards, but I treat BB as a bank account that I funded via credit card and subsequent got points. I hope that makes sense.
But I also agree with DCbob that many bill pays might make it look more legit to Amex.
Jun 3, 2013, 7:58 pm
#895
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: A few
Posts: 5,499
That doesn't really make sense. Each BB account can be funded with 5K of VR's whether that 5K goes towards other bills or the credit card bill is irrelevant. Paying one bill (the CC bill) is easier than paying many bills with it and interrupting your auto pays and such.
But I also agree with DCbob that many bill pays might make it look more legit to Amex.
But I also agree with DCbob that many bill pays might make it look more legit to Amex.
and if and when this all comes to an end, i will bet my last dollar that "legit" spenders will be wiped out with the rest of us
Jun 3, 2013, 7:59 pm
#896
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: DL, WoH
Posts: 1,253
For sure it makes sense. I still think you are missing the point though.
Me I use a regular checking account to do all my regular checking account crap like paying mortgage and other things that don't take a credit card.
Then separately I buy $10k worth of vanilla reloads each month and load them on to me and my wife's BB. I immediately repay the credit card that funded the VR purchases with the funds in BB.
I actually prefer this from a tracking perspective as the card that bought all the vanilla has a $79 balance ($3.95 x 20) which I can repay from normal checking funds, and my checking account pays my mortgage. Not trying to trace my credit card buying a vanilla card loading bluebird paying mortgage and maybe half a dozen other bills
And to be 100% clear, I am not missing out on any points whatsoever. I am completely maximizing BB.
Me I use a regular checking account to do all my regular checking account crap like paying mortgage and other things that don't take a credit card.
Then separately I buy $10k worth of vanilla reloads each month and load them on to me and my wife's BB. I immediately repay the credit card that funded the VR purchases with the funds in BB.
I actually prefer this from a tracking perspective as the card that bought all the vanilla has a $79 balance ($3.95 x 20) which I can repay from normal checking funds, and my checking account pays my mortgage. Not trying to trace my credit card buying a vanilla card loading bluebird paying mortgage and maybe half a dozen other bills
And to be 100% clear, I am not missing out on any points whatsoever. I am completely maximizing BB.
Jun 3, 2013, 8:04 pm
#897
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 809
To each their own on this point. I actually go with the post about earning points on my mortgage. I wouldn't be able to do this without bluebird. That's easy points for doing nothing, but buying chase gift cards and funding BB. Free (for now) to buy lots of chase gift cards and pay the mortgage/hoa/car loan...whatever. Stuff I'd never get points for.
Take one BB account and load it with 5K.
Situation 1 - You Bill pay your CC the full 5K and earn 5K in points. (Assume a 1x card)
Situation 2 - You Bill pay your mortgage, car, and other things you cant pay for with CC for a total of 5K. You STILL earn 5K in points.
Its exactly the same each way.
Jun 3, 2013, 8:06 pm
#898
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: A few
Posts: 5,499
You guys are really missing the point.
Take one BB account and load it with 5K.
Situation 1 - You Bill pay your CC the full 5K and earn 5K in points. (Assume a 1x card)
Situation 2 - You Bill pay your mortgage, car, and other things you cant pay for with CC for a total of 5K. You STILL earn 5K in points.
Its exactly the same each way.
Take one BB account and load it with 5K.
Situation 1 - You Bill pay your CC the full 5K and earn 5K in points. (Assume a 1x card)
Situation 2 - You Bill pay your mortgage, car, and other things you cant pay for with CC for a total of 5K. You STILL earn 5K in points.
Its exactly the same each way.
Jun 3, 2013, 8:09 pm
#899
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: UA Plat MM, AA Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hilton Gold, IHG Plat, Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 5,015
To each their own on this point. I actually go with the post about earning points on my mortgage. I wouldn't be able to do this without bluebird. That's easy points for doing nothing, but buying chase gift cards and funding BB. Free (for now) to buy lots of chase gift cards and pay the mortgage/hoa/car loan...whatever. Stuff I'd never get points for.
I predicted 8 months ago that the sky was NOT falling and that many on FT who predicted that CVS would soon stop selling VRs (or stop accepting CCs for VRs) were dead wrong. My prediction was right.
Jun 3, 2013, 8:17 pm
#900
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: A few
Posts: 5,499
+1. You are using BB as it was intended to be used. Putting $5K in cash to BB from CCs and then paying those same CCs with that $5K just deposited to BB obviously was never the intended purpose of BB and will at least look like abuse to Amex. When Amex shuts this down, they will focus on the "abusers" and not those who are using it like a checking account. That's my opinion only, so let's check back in a year or two and see where we are all at by then.
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