Mar 17, 2014, 3:08 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
PLEASE READ FIRST: WELCOME and MODERATOR NOTE
Welcome to the MH370 Discussion and Speculation Thread
Welcome to the MH370 Discussion and Speculation Thread
If you are new to us, welcome to FlyerTalk!
Who we are: FlyerTalk features discussions and chat boards that covers the most up-to-date traveler information; an interactive community dedicated to the topic of travel.
All travelers are welcome in the community. Just choose a forum: conversing about airlines and their programs, airports, destinations, dining and how to make the most of your miles and points, or visit our Information Desk to start.
All travelers are welcome in the community. Just choose a forum: conversing about airlines and their programs, airports, destinations, dining and how to make the most of your miles and points, or visit our Information Desk to start.
Respect our Diversity - link to this guideline
FlyerTalk members come from all walks of life and all parts of the world. We are as diverse in our makeup as we are alike in our passion for frequent flyer programs. Because we all bring a unique perspective to the forum, our collective experience is broadened, and we gain new insights.
Our diversity demands that we respect each other. Due to the inherent constraints of the Internet, humor, sarcasm, language and slang can be easily misinterpreted - especially when crossing cultural boundaries.
When posting a message, pay extra care to how it might be interpreted. And when you come across a post that offends you, read it with an eye toward giving the poster the benefit of the doubt.
If you have an issue with a post, please contact the member privately or contact a moderator (click on the
button). Do not make a situation worse by publicly responding.
FlyerTalk members come from all walks of life and all parts of the world. We are as diverse in our makeup as we are alike in our passion for frequent flyer programs. Because we all bring a unique perspective to the forum, our collective experience is broadened, and we gain new insights.
Our diversity demands that we respect each other. Due to the inherent constraints of the Internet, humor, sarcasm, language and slang can be easily misinterpreted - especially when crossing cultural boundaries.
When posting a message, pay extra care to how it might be interpreted. And when you come across a post that offends you, read it with an eye toward giving the poster the benefit of the doubt.
If you have an issue with a post, please contact the member privately or contact a moderator (click on the
button). Do not make a situation worse by publicly responding.
In order to a) keep the original thread focused on confirmed news and known facts, and b) allow folks a place to discuss their ideas about what might have happened, the MH370 moderators and Community Director have decided to open this thread.
Here are the expectations:
1. The normal FT TOS apply. (Including not discussing moderation actions on-thread). And please be particularly attentive to "discussing the idea and not the poster" when you have a disagreement. Civility and mutual respect are still expected and are what we owe each other as a community.
2. You are expected respect our diversity , and therefore refrain from posting inflammatory comments about race, religion, culture, politics, ethnicity, orientation, etc." Do not cite, copy, or report on such.
3. Please do continue to be attentive to the sensibilities of the families of those on the flight. Think about if you were them what you would and would not want to see posted. Speculation about what happened is permissible; please, though, do not indulge in inflammatory or overly-lurid descriptions that could well be hurtful.
4. Overly / extravagantly exaggerative posts such as conspiracy theories, posts beyond the realm of science and known facts, etc. as well as posts with information that has been posted several times previously, information that has been posted in the News thread wiki or FAQ, may be deleted. E.g. the aircraft was vaporized.
In terms of housekeeping, posts may get moved from the "news" thread if and as needed, and posts that do not conform to these simple expectations, above, will be deleted.
Also note: this wiki is locked; changes can only be made by moderators.
Thank you.
Your MH370 Moderation Team
aBroadAbroad; cblaisd; JDiver; l'etoile; NewbieRunner; oliver2002; Prospero
and Community Director
SanDiego1K
MH370 Discussion and Speculation Thread
Mar 17, 2014, 2:08 pm
#181
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: LGA - JFK
Programs: UA, AA, DL, B6, CX, KE, Latitude, VIFP, Crown & Anchor, etc.
Posts: 2,589
Roger, understood. It would most likely remained a "classified" mission if they succeed & credit to the surface support vessels above them. Pilot Suicide - another theory/speculaton: Now, Malay Online is reporting the US investigators along with local authorities are considering pilot suicide, for insurance purposes by taking the jet into as deep water as possible.
Mar 17, 2014, 2:08 pm
#182
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,436
vers.
Mar 17, 2014, 2:10 pm
#183
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 228
Sorry i'm no expert and I have no fact or data or what so ever that the following story has anything to do with the missing plane, but I need someone to help me elaborate the theory in my head... thanks in advance...
The moving of these gold happened the same time the plane disappeared...
http://www.hangthebankers.com/ukrain...deral-reserve/
The moving of these gold happened the same time the plane disappeared...
http://www.hangthebankers.com/ukrain...deral-reserve/
Mar 17, 2014, 2:13 pm
#184
Join Date: May 2011
Programs: United, Alaska, JetBlue
Posts: 15
My understanding is that part of the search for the black boxes were paid for through donations / families putting forward their own money. I'm trying to find a source for this--will edit my post to update once I locate one.
Mar 17, 2014, 2:13 pm
#185
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SGF
Programs: AS, AA, UA, AGR S (former 75K, GLD, 1K, and S+, now an elite peon)
Posts: 23,196
It was reported earlier in this thread that AF had given up, but private donations, largely from the family members of those lost, kept the search going.
Mar 17, 2014, 2:20 pm
#186
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HPN
Programs: not anymore! I'm FREE!
Posts: 3,459
This is an interesting theory that completely disregards the hijacking angle - as stated in the post "from a pilot's perspective"
https://plus.google.com/106271056358...ts/GoeVjHJaGBz
The theory is the left turn was a deliberate act but as a diversion to Pulau Langkawi which was the closest and easiest approach for the 777 (not back to KL). The author states that the pilots lost all communications because of fire, and never made it to the airport despite turning back (similar to Swiss Air crash near Halifax in 1998) - he notes it was a warm evening with a heavy plane, and a tire fire or electrical fire could have been the culprit. As to how it kept flying, the author notes:
It's not a theory that fits nicely into a CNN "Breaking News" update, but I think it could be very plausible.
https://plus.google.com/106271056358...ts/GoeVjHJaGBz
The theory is the left turn was a deliberate act but as a diversion to Pulau Langkawi which was the closest and easiest approach for the 777 (not back to KL). The author states that the pilots lost all communications because of fire, and never made it to the airport despite turning back (similar to Swiss Air crash near Halifax in 1998) - he notes it was a warm evening with a heavy plane, and a tire fire or electrical fire could have been the culprit. As to how it kept flying, the author notes:
It's not a theory that fits nicely into a CNN "Breaking News" update, but I think it could be very plausible.
Sounds plausible to me. Maybe more plausible the hijacking, crazy pilot, etc.
Mar 17, 2014, 2:33 pm
#189
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: LHR- ish
Programs: MUCCI, BA Blue
Posts: 4,295
Roger, understood. It would most likely remained a "classified" mission if they succeed & credit to the surface support vessels above them. Pilot Suicide - another theory/speculaton: Now, Malay Online is reporting the US investigators along with local authorities are considering pilot suicide, for insurance purposes by taking the jet into as deep water as possible.
Mar 17, 2014, 3:34 pm
#192
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: LGA - JFK
Programs: UA, AA, DL, B6, CX, KE, Latitude, VIFP, Crown & Anchor, etc.
Posts: 2,589
Mar 17, 2014, 3:35 pm
#193
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: TRG, SBA
Programs: NZ*GE, A3*G, UA Prem, QF, AA
Posts: 157
Could the following theory explain MH370? I am a frequent flyer, but no aviation expert, so any input is highly appreciated.
The pilot is - above all - an aviation buff. He wanted to show his first officer that he was able to climb over the official limit of the 772; to impress him with his skills, or simply to proof that it is possible - maybe he did it before.
To demonstrate that, he had a perfect spot en route to Bejing: Between the radar coverage of Malaysia and Vietnam - but he had to turn off the transponder, otherwise it would have transmitted that he was going to operate the plane beyond limits.
So he turns the transponder of, tells everything is ok "allright, goodnight", turns the transmission of ACARS off (as engine data may well have shown that he going to do something unregulary).
He raises the plane to 45k ft, and something goes wrong. Decompression, window falling out, stall, whatever. The plane goes down pretty fast to 5000 ft, maybe he wanted to go to more oxygen friendly levels.
He is about to get unconcious, starts the autopilot. In the mess he recalls an older file, Perth while avoiding Indonesian air space. The plane goes back to normal cruise, does the maneuvers around the northern tip of Sumatra, the fuel consumption is higher than expected due to the heavy maneuvers before and malfunction (cockpit window, maybe one engine blown), it cannot reach the destination, runs out of petrol and falls in the Indian Ocean on the crossing of the line Banda Aceh-Perth and southern arc.
I have no idea about auto pilots (and don´t claim to) - could this have happened?
The pilot is - above all - an aviation buff. He wanted to show his first officer that he was able to climb over the official limit of the 772; to impress him with his skills, or simply to proof that it is possible - maybe he did it before.
To demonstrate that, he had a perfect spot en route to Bejing: Between the radar coverage of Malaysia and Vietnam - but he had to turn off the transponder, otherwise it would have transmitted that he was going to operate the plane beyond limits.
So he turns the transponder of, tells everything is ok "allright, goodnight", turns the transmission of ACARS off (as engine data may well have shown that he going to do something unregulary).
He raises the plane to 45k ft, and something goes wrong. Decompression, window falling out, stall, whatever. The plane goes down pretty fast to 5000 ft, maybe he wanted to go to more oxygen friendly levels.
He is about to get unconcious, starts the autopilot. In the mess he recalls an older file, Perth while avoiding Indonesian air space. The plane goes back to normal cruise, does the maneuvers around the northern tip of Sumatra, the fuel consumption is higher than expected due to the heavy maneuvers before and malfunction (cockpit window, maybe one engine blown), it cannot reach the destination, runs out of petrol and falls in the Indian Ocean on the crossing of the line Banda Aceh-Perth and southern arc.
I have no idea about auto pilots (and don´t claim to) - could this have happened?
1. One pilot wants to show-off without attracting the attention of ATC, something goes wrong (i.e. decompression or stall)
2. Pilot recovers from problem, thinks everything is okay and gets worried about losing his job, so plots a way to cover up the incident and make it look like a unintentional loss of control.
3. Wants to cover up CVR transcript, knows he has to keep flying for 2+ hours. Plots a roundabout route with planned diversion (KL, perhaps). Leaves ACARS/transponder off to enable the coverup.
4. But problem becomes more serious and somehow leads to incapacitation, leaving plane on a heading to nowhere until fuel starvation.
Biggest hole in this theory is decision to turn left and plot a roundabout route over the Andaman sea, instead of checking in with Vietnam, continuing for 45 minutes towards PEK, then inventing a reason to turn around back to KUL. Maybe it's difficult to make such logical decisions in the heat of the moment, maybe the problem led to spatial disorientation... but there's a lot more logic to this than a highly-organised and flawless hijack attempt.
Mar 17, 2014, 3:35 pm
#194
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,605
And Malay Online is quoting US Republican Congressman Peter King, the Chair of the House Sub-Committee on Counterterrorism and Intelligence who seems to be speaking without any facts.
Mar 17, 2014, 3:36 pm
#195
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1
MH370 Part 2?
I agree with eabandit’s concern (Post #129). I am beginning to think that with no claim of responsibility for what appears to be a hijack, and the Central Asian area to which MH370 may have been delivered, this saga may be intended to have a Part 2.
The worry is that some countries of the former Soviet Union still have readily available illicit supplies of nuclear materials, and that these are traded on what sounds to be an active black market. This is not exactly news, of course, but it puts an alarming perspective on MH370's possible diversion to this area.
Countries of concern: Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Georgia; also (?formerly) Pakistan.
The articles below give more info, and show why there should be such cause for concern.
“Loose Nukes” (Council on Foreign Relations backgrounder January 2006; includes loose nuclear material)
“Black Market for Nuclear Materials Endures” (USA Today Dec 10, 2012; mainly concerned with Georgia)
From the CFR article:
<< Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan … all three countries still have stockpiles of weapons-grade uranium and plutonium. Ukraine and Kazakhstan also have nuclear power plants the byproducts of which cannot be used to make a nuclear bomb but might tempt terrorists trying to make a “dirty bomb”—a regular explosive laced with lower-grade radioactive material. >>
And:
<< Have terrorist organizations ever tried to obtain Russian nuclear weapons?
Yes. Russian authorities say that in the past three years alone they have broken up hundreds of nuclear-material smuggling deals. In October 2001, shortly after the World Trade Center attacks, a Russian nuclear official reported having foiled two separate incidents over the previous eight months in which terrorists had “staked out” a secret weapons storage site. In the 1990s, U.S. authorities discovered several al-Qaeda plots to obtain nuclear materials, and former CIA Director George Tenet told the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence that Osama bin Laden had sought to “acquire or develop a nuclear device.” >>
The worry is that some countries of the former Soviet Union still have readily available illicit supplies of nuclear materials, and that these are traded on what sounds to be an active black market. This is not exactly news, of course, but it puts an alarming perspective on MH370's possible diversion to this area.
Countries of concern: Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Georgia; also (?formerly) Pakistan.
The articles below give more info, and show why there should be such cause for concern.
“Loose Nukes” (Council on Foreign Relations backgrounder January 2006; includes loose nuclear material)
“Black Market for Nuclear Materials Endures” (USA Today Dec 10, 2012; mainly concerned with Georgia)
From the CFR article:
<< Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan … all three countries still have stockpiles of weapons-grade uranium and plutonium. Ukraine and Kazakhstan also have nuclear power plants the byproducts of which cannot be used to make a nuclear bomb but might tempt terrorists trying to make a “dirty bomb”—a regular explosive laced with lower-grade radioactive material. >>
And:
<< Have terrorist organizations ever tried to obtain Russian nuclear weapons?
Yes. Russian authorities say that in the past three years alone they have broken up hundreds of nuclear-material smuggling deals. In October 2001, shortly after the World Trade Center attacks, a Russian nuclear official reported having foiled two separate incidents over the previous eight months in which terrorists had “staked out” a secret weapons storage site. In the 1990s, U.S. authorities discovered several al-Qaeda plots to obtain nuclear materials, and former CIA Director George Tenet told the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence that Osama bin Laden had sought to “acquire or develop a nuclear device.” >>