Jul 17, 2014, 9:40 am
Last edit by: NewbieRunner
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Further posts regarding any of these issues are liable to summary deletion.
This thread is about the loss of MH 17. In depth discussion of unrelated topics — geopolitics, passport theft, aviation security, airport security procedures, etc. — belongs in other fora. A few include:
OMNI/PR: Discussion of perspectives on politics and religion, including geopolitics and terrorism (requires 180 days on FT and 180 constructive posts prior to admission)
If you wish to discuss the politics and political implications related to this issue (or others), please do so in OMNI/PR; the MH 777 Crashes In Ukraine - Official In Kiev Claims Airliner Shot Down By Separatists thread is the place.
Travel Safety/Security: Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (including routing passenger aircraft over conflict areas).
Travel Safety/Security: Practical Travel Safety Issues for those discussing travel safety and security issues because they are planning a trip soon (including passport and nationality issues).
TravelBuzz: TravelBuzz for those wishing to discuss the relative safety of a specific aircraft - e.g. Boeing 777.
Further posts regarding any of these issues are liable to summary deletion.
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Malaysia Airlines MH 17 crash in Ukraine (17 July 2014 - PLEASE READ WIKI, FAQ)
Jul 17, 2014, 4:10 pm
#571
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As I was getting ready, husband hurried in to the bathroom and said... quick another Malaysia Airlines plane has gone down. OMG I just feel sick. What is going on in the world. 27 Aussies on board. It could been any of us.
Jul 17, 2014, 4:13 pm
#572
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You can view translations directly from Twitter...it's obviously not perfect but if you are on someone's page and click on a tweet, it will bring up all the information about the tweet, and if it isn't in English there should be an option to view the translation.
This tweet was published at 5:06pm from NYC time:
https://twitter.com/spainbuca/status/489878810066972672
This tweet was published at 5:06pm from NYC time:
https://twitter.com/spainbuca/status/489878810066972672
Some of the main points made by the poster:
- It says that right before the plane disappeared from the radar, it was being escorted by to fighter jets and that it was not shot down by one of those fighter jets.
- Ss soon as the plane disappeared, Kiev's military confirmed it had been shot down -he asks, how did they know so soon?
- The military there don't know who gave the order but that they are "certain" that it didn't come from pro-Russian militias.
- Military personnel wanted to rise against Urkaine's president and that this might be their way of doing it.
- He also says there's foreign personnel in the ATC with no explanation given why. [He doesn't say where they come from]
I'd take this with a grain of salt. I mean, it seems that he's an air traffic controller, but also he's only source is RT, which we know is heavily biased.
Jul 17, 2014, 4:17 pm
#573
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This comes from Facebook originally - I won't post the link but it is easy to find. There is a conversation in the comments section that appears genuine. Friends and family of the two victims saying happy holiday etc. then reports of the crash by some family/friends and reactions to it. Then condolences etc. Timing is right as well. The account and reactions seem genuine - maybe the poster used an old photo, maybe there was a change of plane.
Jul 17, 2014, 4:20 pm
#574
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- The flight was escorted by two fighter jets (Ukranian) up to 3 mins before losing contact.
- Missile was picked up by military radars but not civilian radars. - I don't know how he would know this -.
- Ukraine army took over the tower with 'foreign personnel' shortly after the plane was confirmed shot down. Note that accident was never in the picture.
- Informal chatter was that Ukraine took it down but it was unclear who gave the order
- The missile came from an area that was known to not be occupied by rebels
- Since the army took over the tower on short notice, knew that the plane was shot down and didn't deny that it was from the Ukranian army makes him believe that it was planned.
- He later backtracks and says that it may have been a Ukraine army soldier that was too trigger-happy and was NOT following orders
He is sure Kiev is to blame and has over 10,000 tweets on the account.
Make from the above what you will.
Last edited by MrShyGuy; Jul 17, 2014 at 4:25 pm
Jul 17, 2014, 4:24 pm
#575
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VK.com's page is now disclaiming any relationship to Strelkov.
https://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_7256
https://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_7256
Jul 17, 2014, 4:24 pm
#576
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Can someone Spanish-speaking browse through this account? https://twitter.com/spainbuca
Apparently a traffic controller who works in Borispol. Not sure if relevant, but makes some peculiar claims.
Apparently a traffic controller who works in Borispol. Not sure if relevant, but makes some peculiar claims.
Needless to say, we do not have any definitive and factual information about the cause of the crash at this time.
Jul 17, 2014, 4:26 pm
#577
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Ok, sounds like more conjecture, considering even "eyewitness accounts" only claimed a single plane.
Jul 17, 2014, 4:33 pm
#578
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Absolutely terrible tragedy but why was MH17 flying through this area in the first place? I understand that some airlines were giving the region a wide berth but most were not. Seems to point to unbelievably poor security management by some airlines when there were clear reports of military aircraft being shot down by SAM's in recent days. The FAA had issued a warning in April but I've also seen reports that MH17 was brought down outside the warning corridor.
Jul 17, 2014, 4:34 pm
#579
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Andrii Kuzmenko (the acting Ukrainian Ambassador to the United Kingdom) asserts in an interview with Newsnight today that the Ukraine does not and did not have the Buk system in the area of the conflict at all.
"We don't have in the military or the national guard right now the weapons capable of shooting down the airliner at such an altitude. [...] We have in Ukraine the Buk missiles, but not in the area of the conflict."
He also finds it 'suspicious' that the black boxes were (allegedly) already found by the separatists.
"We don't have in the military or the national guard right now the weapons capable of shooting down the airliner at such an altitude. [...] We have in Ukraine the Buk missiles, but not in the area of the conflict."
He also finds it 'suspicious' that the black boxes were (allegedly) already found by the separatists.
Jul 17, 2014, 4:36 pm
#581
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Wirelessly posted (beckoa's BB: Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9810; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.11+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.1.0.694 Mobile Safari/534.11+)
Sad day for aviation. RIP MH17.
Sad day for aviation. RIP MH17.
Jul 17, 2014, 4:37 pm
#582
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The person who ultimately launched the SAM was not an idiot. Let's face it, if he was, they wouldn't have put him in charge in the first place, right? On second thought, maybe he was indeed an idiot and couldn't tell what kind of plane he was targeting before firing the SAM?
Last edited by aBroadAbroad; Jul 17, 2014 at 6:57 pm Reason: Removed reply to deleted content; please use alert button for inappropriate content instead of posting in thread
Jul 17, 2014, 4:46 pm
#583
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American position on this is that a surface to air missile took down the plane. The "who" part is still being worked on.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07...resident-says/
Also we got this gem of a quote in there:
Aviation authorities in several countries, including the FAA in the United States, had issued warnings not to fly over parts of Ukraine prior to Thursday’s crash, but many airliners had continued to use the route because “it is a shorter route, which means less fuel and therefore less money,” said aviation expert Norman Shanks.
And this:
A launcher similar to the Buk missile system was seen by Associated Press journalists earlier Thursday near the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne, which is held by the rebels.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07...resident-says/
Also we got this gem of a quote in there:
Aviation authorities in several countries, including the FAA in the United States, had issued warnings not to fly over parts of Ukraine prior to Thursday’s crash, but many airliners had continued to use the route because “it is a shorter route, which means less fuel and therefore less money,” said aviation expert Norman Shanks.
And this:
A launcher similar to the Buk missile system was seen by Associated Press journalists earlier Thursday near the eastern Ukrainian town of Snizhne, which is held by the rebels.
Jul 17, 2014, 4:52 pm
#584
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Jul 17, 2014, 4:54 pm
#585
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Andrii Kuzmenko (the acting Ukrainian Ambassador to the United Kingdom) asserts in an interview with Newsnight today that the Ukraine does not and did not have the Buk system in the area of the conflict at all.
"We don't have in the military or the national guard right now the weapons capable of shooting down the airliner at such an altitude. [...] We have in Ukraine the Buk missiles, but not in the area of the conflict."
He also finds it 'suspicious' that the black boxes were (allegedly) already found by the separatists.
"We don't have in the military or the national guard right now the weapons capable of shooting down the airliner at such an altitude. [...] We have in Ukraine the Buk missiles, but not in the area of the conflict."
He also finds it 'suspicious' that the black boxes were (allegedly) already found by the separatists.
The SA-8, on the other hand comes in a TELAR (Transport, Erector, Launcher and Radar) format so that instead of needing 2-3 vehicles (the SA-11 has a TEL [Transporter, Erector, and Launcher]), it is all rolled into 1 unit. And not to mention that the SA-8 is far more mobile as it comes in an amphibious kit too.
The question is whether the press that saw the SAM nearby a few days prior, either saw an SA-11 TEL or an SA-8 TELAR.