Pseudo Nim

The exact post currently on VK.com is:

"Малазийский лайнер был сбит украинским штурмовиком
Воздушное пространство над Луганской и Донецкой Республиками закрыто правительством Украины.
Нарушение малазийским лайнером могло произойти по двум причинам: 1) провокация со стороны Украины; 2) ошибка диспетчера.

Любое судно по нормативным актам должно быть сбито ПВО страны, чье воздушное пространство оно нарушило.

Очевидцы, наблюдавшие полет пассажирского самолета Боинг 777, наблюдали атаку на него штурмовика ВВС Украины. После чего пассажирский самолет раскололся на две части в воздухе и упал на территории ДНР. После атаки украинский штурмовик был сбит и упал на территории ЛНР в районе Красного Луча. На данный момент ведутся поиски сбитого самолета".

Which translates as:

"Malaysian airliner was shot down by a Ukrainian attack fighter. The airspace above Lugansk and Donetsk is closed by the Ukrainian government. The violation of the airspace by the Malaysian airliner could have happened for two reasons: 1) provocation on the Ukrainian side or 2) an error by the flight controller.

Any plane, based on standard defense agreements, should be shot down by the anti-aircraft systems of a country whose airspace it has violated.

Eyewitnesses, observing the flight of the Boeing 777, witnessed an attack on it by a Ukrainian air force fighter. The plane broke into two pieces and fell onto Donetsk National Republic's territory. After this, the Ukrainian fighter was shot down and fell on the Lugansk National Republic's territory in the area of Krasniy Luch. The fighter jet remains are currently being looked for."

[edited to add]

FWIW, the translation of the original post on VK.com that was removed:

"Just shot down an An-26 in the area of Torez, it's lying around somewhere around the "Progress" mine. We warned - don't fly around in 'our skies'. And here's a video of the latest 'bird falling'. The bird fell in a remote area, bypassing residential areas. No civilians were harmed.

As well, looks like there was a second downed plane, apparently a Su."

Andriyko

But the pictures are from what now is being reported as the crash site of the MH flight.
It is now being reported that a heavy Ukrainian cargo plane was flying in that area and the Russian rebels must have shot down the MH plane taking it for the Ukrainian IL-76. The question now is if the missile was not shot from the Russian side then where could the 'rebels' possible get such heavy weapons?

Duke787

One of the CNN producers tweeted a report that the plane had deviated from its flight path possibly due to weather.

- @vplus

IATA also released a statement saying the plane was not in closed airspace when it went down

MSPeconomist

Interesting but close to what I suspected. USA network news is talking about how big the 777 is and claiming about 400 seats (and saying that the flight wasn't very full). This might be true in a high density or all coach configuration but since DL only has 291 seats on their 777-200LR, I would very much doubt that MH packs 400 people in the same aircraft. The MH website doesn't seem to give such data about their fleet, nor can one easily see a MH 777 seat map.

tlawrence85

Thanks for following up with the actual plan. The point where the plane was shot down is short of the actual closed routes. Even if the flight had been planned taking into account this NOTAM, it could still have been at the same place at the same time.

eflyte

Looks like all kinds of flights btwn Europe and SE Asia use the same airway. Can anyone point to a flight en route that's diverted around the area, or know what a likely alternate routine might look like?

Edit - here's one...MH21 looks to have abruptly re-routed south around Ukrainian airspace http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS21

Palal

If you look at flightaware, the plane flew to the south of today's and yesterday's track for nearly 5-6 months. It usually went over Mariupol' and then entered Russia.

BearX220

Here is the NOTAM appearing on the FAA website, with confirmation of date/time of issuance:

V6158/14 - DUE TO COMBAT ACTIONS ON THE TERRITORY OF THE UKRAINE NEAR THE
STATE BORDER WITH THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION AND THE FACTS OF FIRING
FROM THE TERRITORY OF THE UKRAINE TOWARDS THE TERRITORY OF RUSSIAN
FEDERATION, TO ENSURE INTL FLT SAFETY,
ATS RTE SEGMENTS CLSD AS FLW:
A100 MIMRA - ROSTOV-NA-DONU VOR/DME (RND) ,
B145 KANON - ASMIL,
G247 MIMRA - BAGAYEVSKIY NDB (BA),
A87 TAMAK - SARNA,
A102 PENEG - NALEM,
A225 GUKOL - ODETA,
A712 TAMAK - SAMBEK NDB (SB),
B493 FASAD - ROSTOV-NA-DONU VOR/DME (RND),
B947 TAMAK - ROSTOV-NA-DONU VOR/DME (RND),
G118 LATRI - BAGAYEVSKIY NDB (BA),
G534 MIMRA - TOROS,
G904 FASAD - SUTAG,
R114 BAGAYEVSKIY NDB (BA)-NALEM.
SFC - FL320.
DEP FM/ARR TO ROSTOV-NA-DONU AD TO/FM MOSCOW FIR CARRIED OUT ALONG
ATS RTE G128 KONSTANTINOVSK NDB (KA) - MOROZOVSK VOR/DME (MOR) AND
R11 MOROZOVSK VOR/DME (MOR) - BUTRI ON ASSIGNED FL.
DEP FM ROSTOV-NA-DONU AD TO DNEPROPETROVSK FIR CARRIED OUT ALONG
ATS RTE A102 KONSTANTINOVSK NDB (KA) - NALEM ON FL340 AND ABOVE.
ARR TO ROSTOV-NA-DONU AD FM DNEPROPETROVSK FIR CARRIED OUT ALONG
ATS RTE A712 TAMAK - SAMBEK NDB (SB) THEN DCT KONSTANTINOVSK NDB
(KA) ON FL330 AND ABOVE. SFC - FL530, 17 JUL 00:00 2014 UNTIL 31 AUG 23:59 2014
ESTIMATED. CREATED: 16 JUL 17:08 2014

Here is the FAA page on which it appears:

https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/PilotWe...displayByICAOs

JDiver's upthread observation is quite correct that a NOTAM doesn't do much good if it's ignored by the relevant aviators. But that says more about the aviators than the veracity of the NOTAM.

HasteFlier

True for Afghanistan - If my memory is correct, the flow of aircraft over the country was lower than normal due to the lack of "normal" airspace control. Many flights from southeast Asia to Europe went through that route.

Very sad news in an case

haddon90

per seatguru...it has 35 in C and 247 in Y

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Mal...ng_777-200.php

laldn

International Air Transport Association statement
Posted on 07-17 at 19:50:53 CST

Geneva, Switzerland - 7pm

We extend our deepest sympathies to the families and friends of the passengers and crew of MH17. Based on the information currently available it is believed that the airspace that the aircraft was traversing was not subject to restrictions.

jbwe350

Prayers for passengers and crew on board MH17, and their family members. But also, for Malaysia Airlines - I honestly doubt that this incident was their fault, and they are also a victim - I now worry about the effects this may have on the airline's finances. I will continue to fly MH despite recent incidents.

tyberius

In case people want to read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system

Probably exact range as you say is going to be hard to know because of various variants but it seems very capable. I read this in the summary:

Target engagement zone
aircraft
altitude – 15 m – 25 km
range – 3–42 km

The 1960 version of the system is the "Kub" and was capable of 24km range and 36,000 foot altitude. The 1980 version is the "Buk" and is capable of 30km range and 46,000 foot altitude. The 1984 version is upgraded to 35km and 72,000 feet of altitude. There are upgrades since then as well topping out at 82,000 feet.

Andriyko

This just does not make any sense... First, how can anyone (an average person) tell planes flying that high apart? Second, "then the Ukrainian fighter was shot down"? Really? By who? I thought the rebels did not have the capabilities to shoot anything that high?
It appears that the Ukrainian Government did close down airspace below 7.900 metres in that area. He is lying when he says that the airspace above was closed...

Diogenes1789

At least at the present, the Taliban does not have SAMs.