Goodmorning2U

We just returned from the FS Otemachi. It was an exceptional stay, with the entire team providing an incredibly warm welcome to Tokyo.

Rooms:

We had both a city view king room and a corner studio suite with a view of Sky Tree..

The views from the 37th floor are gorgeous day and night. All the furnishings are comfortable and of good quality.

The bathroom amenities were particularly impressive. There was every conceivable bell and whistle amenity in the bathroom for you to enjoy there and/or take home; a high quality brush and comb are just the beginning.

Housekeeping had a personalized bathroom matt for our toiletries.

There were complimentary snacks, sweet and spicy nuts, refreshed daily.

Complimentary coffee by the window on the 39th floor was incredibly peaceful way to start the day.

The gym was very well stocked and I was pleasantly surprised to see a few other guests using it. The hotel was completely booked but we never waited or had difficulty getting reservations or felt that it was full.

We enjoyed the spa immensely. The therapists and facilities are excellent. The hot onsen after laps in the pool was a real luxury. The service around the pool was warm and friendly, explaining to us that it’s customary to wear a swim cap in the pool and not getting upset about one child forgetting to shower first.

We also tried Est, their two star restaurant. I’m not an avid foodie, I would much rather spend the money on a tour of the city, but this is an experience worth doing.

The premise of the cuisine is to fuse Japanese and French cooking, hardly novel, but the execution was both delightfully surprising and flawlessly executed. Service was delightful.

Food throughout the hotel was excellent. At breakfast, the pastries were exceptional and the buffet was both varied and of very high quality. The cheese selection alone was more akin to what we might find at a good French cheese shop.

Guests were mostly well heeled tourists and their families during the holiday, with a smattering of Japanese businessmen and very many Japanese local families and couples enjoying afternoon tea, which was booked solid every day.

JK, the concierge, went above and beyond for us, securing Studio Ghibli tickets, which I tried to purchase as soon as they went on sale but was unsuccessful. The museum was a highlight of our visit to Japan and I cannot more highly recommend a visit.

I’ve visited the Aman, the Peninsula and Mo, as well as stayed at the other FS in Tokyo. I’m so happy with our choice of the FS Otemachi and can’t imagine staying anywhere else.

stargold

All of this would be fine for a short stay of 1-2 nights, for which I do not doubt that Hoshinoya can provide an interesting and novel experience, but devoting all 6 nights of a Tokyo stay to Hoshinoya feels to me like a very heavy opportunity cost compared to what a more conventional luxury hotel can provide.

Even the whole taking the shoes off at the entrance thing feels like an interesting twist at the beginning but quickly gets old.

stargold

I wonder whether the list above is really a fair comparison of the cost, given that the rooms in Hoshinoya are neither suites nor have access to a club lounge?

Moreover, I guess it's still unknown whether Hoshinoya is £1400 or £4000, which is a pretty significant spread. If it's in fact closer to the cost of a Deluxe Balcony at the Palace Hotel for example, then I know which I would choose for my first visit to Tokyo. After all, trying to pack all your itinerary into limited time without the help of a good concierge will already put you at a disadvantage.

jiajin

Haha you misunderstand, I'm not advocating for Hoshinoya. In fact, given their well documented issues that include their Fuji and lower-end KAI properties, I'd not recommend staying there at all (one can always get a proper ryokan experience within an hour's ride from Tokyo if interested). I'm just pointing out the different cultural context that makes Hoshinoya seem worse than it really is.

In fact, your comment about the shoes exactly proves my point. The taking off of shoes is not an "interesting twist", or some cultural ceremony like a welcome dance at a safari camp. It isn't even an inconvenience in a Japanese context, because your shoes either come off at the front door (homes, ryokans, old restaurants with tatami mats), or the first thing upon opening the door of one's hotel room anyway. The fact that such an everyday habit is a negative point at all, along with the lack of gym, really shows that we are trying to evaluate a ryokan by western expectations, which seems slightly unfair.

It'll be like me checking into a Caribbean beach resort and complaining that the tub doesn't fill itself and keep itself warm, or that the toilet bowl isn't heated and doesn't have dual bidets. Different expectations.

stargold

I happen to come from a shoes-off culture so the act of taking shoes off at the entrance of a house or restaurant is not at all new to me. I suspect, however, that taking off shoes at the entrance of a 19-storey hotel with 84 rooms is probably an "interesting twist", even in Japan.

If they wanted to provide the "ryokan experience" with this arrangement in a hotel that is probably too large for it, they should do so seamlessly. In practice, I found that 1. they don't memorise your room number (at least not everyone's) so it was a minor annoyance to have to give your room number every time you arrived or departed, 2. it was not straightforward to manage different pairs of shoes for multiple people in the same room, and 3. during certain times, the person in charge of shoes was not by the door, and having to call for someone just to store/retrieve your shoes felt like I was being a nuisance. That was the negative part, rather than the act of taking one's shoes off at the entrance.

The gym comment was simply an example to illustrate that it has very minimal facilities, to ensure that one does not book it thinking that it is comparable to other conventional luxury hotels with the full range of facilities you would normally expect, as at least one poster may have been on the cusp of doing.

jiajin

I see! That does sound annoying. Every ryokan I’ve been to was either small enough for it to be a self-service affair with the shoes laid out, or had the front desk staff seamlessly run out before me to get them. What you described sounds more like the experience one would get at Onyado Nono than a luxury hotel in Tokyo or elsewhere 🥲

HaleiwaFlyer

Actually it’s not different cultural expectations of luxury, as we went in with the expectations knowing certain limitations such as bed configuration and lack of gym. We are well aware this is not a true luxury property. What we did not expect is the man made prison box feel nor the lack of restaurant availabilities even for their own guests (isn’t that part of a Ryokan -inn experience?).

The OP I was responding to is planning to stay for multiple days there, and should be aware of different view points Hoshinoya-Tokyo. Maybe he or she will love it, who knows. But I believe the general consensus on FT is that 1-2 days is plenty here.

To think this is a cultural issue is quite frankly a cop out of an argument as it has nothing to do with luxury standards no matter where in the world you are in: you either meet them or not.

Yep, this is the point for the OP who we are responding to; whose itenerary includes multiple day stays here. Again, the OP maybe to the moon with his/her stay with the money spent.

jiajin

Maybe it's coming off wrong over text, but the sentiment feels rather haughty? I don't even disagree with most of your conclusions:

1. Hoshinoya Tokyo deserves 1 night max.
   Agreed, or 0 nights preferably (see #2).
   
   
2. Hoshinoya Tokyo isn't "true luxury".
   Also true, the service issues are disqualifying. The front desk is as flexible as a brick for itinerary planning. And they should have proactively offered alternatives when their restaurant was booked out. Honestly this is an endemic issue with the brand, because the Fuji property gets the same complaints, and there it's even worse, because you can't walk 5mins to another restaurant. They should really reach out regarding meals in advance.
   
   
3. Hoshinoya Tokyo isn't "true luxury", because it lacks a gym, has a bad quiet / enclosed vibe, can't accommodate last-minute meal requests, etc.
   Now this is where nuance is needed? If I book a no-meal stay plan at say, Tawaraya or Asadaya -- which are undoubtedly luxury urban ryokans by Japanese standards -- and then expect dinner at 3pm upon check-in, I'm just setting myself up for disappointment. It's not the FS George V with 5 restaurants onsite, and with spare tables guaranteed in at least 1 of them. That doesn't mean that those ryokans can't be "true" luxury. Similarly, small / narrow venues with no windows are common in Japanese aesthetics, and there are plenty of luxury restaurants and accoms with similar enclosed vibes. We can dislike their interpretation of this, but it's surely not disqualifying re: luxury or not?
   
   Some of these differing cultural expectations aren't even unique to Japan. While road tripping in Umbria and Tuscany, my partner, who loves the gym, was completely bummed that many of the independent properties we visited either had a sad gym (e.g. Lupaia, Borgo Pignano -- although the latter has since improved) or none at all (e.g. Nun Assisi, Palazzo Seneca). They might have lovely pools and sprawling spas, but the gym is way down the list of priorities. Yet I don't think anyone would argue that Lupaia or Borgo Pignano doesn't qualify as "true" luxury, it's just that gymming isn't part of most people's idea of a chill Tuscan holiday. In the same vein, I don't think the gym or lack thereof is a good way to judge Hoshinoya's luxury creds, because of what is culturally expected of a ryokan stay. OP being one of those who doesn't care for the gym.

IMO Hoshinoya Tokyo isn't even a particularly good ryokan. OP might be dissuaded on the grounds that 6 nights is far too long to spend at any ryokan, much less a middling one. Or that using a ryokan as a city hotel is unwise due to amenitiy comprimises you rightly pointed out, which is a common feedback when folks plan to stay in a ryokan for multiple nights in ryokan-heavy cities like Kyoto. But not because the lack of gym, inabiity to accomodate guests in the restaurant, or some immutable luxury standards that, I quote, "no matter where in the world you are in: you either meet them or not", makes Hoshinoya un-luxurious, if that makes sense?

GodAtum

Would people say there's a stark difference in the level of service between Aman and Capitol? At the Aman I would be expected to be escorted all the way to my room, be offered a hot towel and welcome drink.

I'm surprised the MO service was bad ... I've always had great service at their properties.

MattEvan

If the Capitol Tokyu offers even a third of Aman’s service level I’d eat my shoe.

GodAtum

Reading reviews, Aman is like marmite. people either love it or say it's overrated.

stargold

The hard product is spectacular, but service at Aman Tokyo in my 2019 stay was no better than any other top of the line luxury property at Tokyo, and I didn't experience any of the trademark Aman touches that you would normally expect at the good resort properties such as majority of staff memorising your names/room numbers or the multiple housekeeping touch-ups in rooms at various times during the day. Of course, I appreciate that these things might be impractical in a city hotel, but then what other above-and-beyond service could you expect?

I was just about okay with the JPY 130k rate I paid pre-Covid, but the near-300k rate now is laughable (although in line with the general craziness of the past year). Hey, I guess at least it's not 500k like Kyoto! (All figures including taxes/charges)

Arherm

I feel like Aman Tokyo is charging the rate based on availibility (and some others in Tokyo too), not by seasonals like Aman properties in another countries. They will keep increasing the price and surprisingly people are still willing on paying for those rates. Quite make senses I guess to keep the hotel from full capacity so they can keep up with the service demands.

Then there is a new Janu, same city hotels within one place. They will keep going to upmarket and can't lowering the rates again like pre-covid cuz it's Janu's range now.

GodAtum

That's interesting. One review last year said all the staff addressed him my name and knew his room number. Maybe it's improved?

Dave510

They will absolutely lower the price, when demand drops off.