Virtuoso - new hotels and non-renewals for 2013
Oct 17, 2012, 11:12 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Asheville, NC
Programs: Virtuoso, FSPP, STARS, MO FAN Club, PEN Club, Bellini Club, Dorchester Diamond Club, Travel Leaders
Posts: 1,854
Virtuoso - new hotels and non-renewals for 2013
NEW VIRTUOSO HOTELS FOR 2013
Africa & Middle East
Rocco Forte Hotel Abu Dhabi
Raffles Dubai - Dubai
Asia & Pacific
Shangri-La Hotel, Chengdu
Canada & United States
The Sebastian - Vail
Ritz-Carlton Montreal
The Roosevelt New Orleans
Europe
Cheval Blanc Courchevel, France
Les Pres d'Eugenie, Eugenie-les-Bains, France
Hotel Negresco, Nice
Hotel Fouquet's Barriere, Paris
Mexico, Central & South America
Insolito Boutique Hotel - Armacao de Buzios, Brazil
Bermuda & Caribbean
The Jalousie Plantation, Saint Lucia
VIRTUOSO HOTELS THAT DID NOT RENEW FOR 2013
Africa & Middle East
Lupita Island Lake Tanganyika, Tanzania
Grande Roche Hotel, Paarl, South Africa
Asia & Pacific
The Hongta Hotel, A Luxury Collection Hotel (formerly St. Regis Shanghai)
Four Seasons Resort, Langkawi (but still FSPP)
Henry Jones Art Hotel, Hobart, Australia
Central & South America
Hotel Santa Teresa, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Kiaroa Eco Luxury Resort, Salvador de Bahia, Brazil
Las Casitas del Colca, Arequipa, Peru
Canada & United States
The Fairmont Royal York, Toronto, Ont., Canada
The Broadmoor, Colorado Springs, CO
Little Palm Island Resort & Spa, Florida Keys, FL
21C Museum Hotel, Louisville, KY
Gansevoort Meatpacking, New York, NY
Gramercy Park Hotel, New York, NY
The Rittenhouse Hotel, Philadelphia, PA
Keswick Hall at Monticello, Keswick, VA
Snake River Lodge & Spa, Teton Village, Wyoming
Europe
Stoke Park, Stoke Poges, England
Schlossle Hotel Tallinn, Tallinn, Estonia
Hotel & Spa de la Bretesche, Missilac (Loire Valley)
Chateaux de Noirieux, Briollet (Loire Valley) France
George Blanc Parc & Spa, Vonnas (Rhone-Alpes)
Ritz, Paris, Paris, France - lengthy hotel closure/renovation
King George Palace, Athens, Greece - hotel in receivership, subject to closure
Hotel de Hirschgasse, Heidelberg, Germany
Hotel Helvetia & Bristol, Florence, Italy
Palazzo Terranova, Umbria, Italy
Grande Real Villa Italia Hotel & SPA, Cascais, Portugal
The Marcliffe Hotel & Spa, Aberdeen, Scotland
Casa Fuster, Barcelona, Spain
AC Santo Mauro, Madrid, Spain
Africa & Middle East
Rocco Forte Hotel Abu Dhabi
Raffles Dubai - Dubai
Asia & Pacific
Shangri-La Hotel, Chengdu
Canada & United States
The Sebastian - Vail
Ritz-Carlton Montreal
The Roosevelt New Orleans
Europe
Cheval Blanc Courchevel, France
Les Pres d'Eugenie, Eugenie-les-Bains, France
Hotel Negresco, Nice
Hotel Fouquet's Barriere, Paris
Mexico, Central & South America
Insolito Boutique Hotel - Armacao de Buzios, Brazil
Bermuda & Caribbean
The Jalousie Plantation, Saint Lucia
VIRTUOSO HOTELS THAT DID NOT RENEW FOR 2013
Africa & Middle East
Lupita Island Lake Tanganyika, Tanzania
Grande Roche Hotel, Paarl, South Africa
Asia & Pacific
The Hongta Hotel, A Luxury Collection Hotel (formerly St. Regis Shanghai)
Four Seasons Resort, Langkawi (but still FSPP)
Henry Jones Art Hotel, Hobart, Australia
Central & South America
Hotel Santa Teresa, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Kiaroa Eco Luxury Resort, Salvador de Bahia, Brazil
Las Casitas del Colca, Arequipa, Peru
Canada & United States
The Fairmont Royal York, Toronto, Ont., Canada
The Broadmoor, Colorado Springs, CO
Little Palm Island Resort & Spa, Florida Keys, FL
21C Museum Hotel, Louisville, KY
Gansevoort Meatpacking, New York, NY
Gramercy Park Hotel, New York, NY
The Rittenhouse Hotel, Philadelphia, PA
Keswick Hall at Monticello, Keswick, VA
Snake River Lodge & Spa, Teton Village, Wyoming
Europe
Stoke Park, Stoke Poges, England
Schlossle Hotel Tallinn, Tallinn, Estonia
Hotel & Spa de la Bretesche, Missilac (Loire Valley)
Chateaux de Noirieux, Briollet (Loire Valley) France
George Blanc Parc & Spa, Vonnas (Rhone-Alpes)
Ritz, Paris, Paris, France - lengthy hotel closure/renovation
King George Palace, Athens, Greece - hotel in receivership, subject to closure
Hotel de Hirschgasse, Heidelberg, Germany
Hotel Helvetia & Bristol, Florence, Italy
Palazzo Terranova, Umbria, Italy
Grande Real Villa Italia Hotel & SPA, Cascais, Portugal
The Marcliffe Hotel & Spa, Aberdeen, Scotland
Casa Fuster, Barcelona, Spain
AC Santo Mauro, Madrid, Spain
Oct 17, 2012, 1:58 pm
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2009
Location: FRA / YEG
Programs: AC Super Elite, Radisson Platinum, Accor Platinum
Posts: 11,874
Thanks for posting this info!^
I find it pretty interesting that there are far more hotels leaving than joining the Virtuoso consortium. Has Virtuoso increased the membership fees or is this just coincidence?
I find it pretty interesting that there are far more hotels leaving than joining the Virtuoso consortium. Has Virtuoso increased the membership fees or is this just coincidence?
Last edited by Jasper2009; Oct 17, 2012 at 2:42 pm
Oct 17, 2012, 7:28 pm
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Asheville, NC
Programs: Virtuoso, FSPP, STARS, MO FAN Club, PEN Club, Bellini Club, Dorchester Diamond Club, Travel Leaders
Posts: 1,854
Some of the hotels chose not to renew because they weren't getting enough Virtuoso bookings to make the investment worthwhile. Others were not invited back because of product issues or non-responsiveness to service gaps (in other words, Virtuoso doing quality control).
Oct 18, 2012, 10:57 pm
#7
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: my heart is on the shores of the north Italian lakes
Programs: LX Senator Lifetime, Relais&Chateaux Club5C, ex ! "Amanjunkie", ex LHW LC, hate chain hotels
Posts: 2,515
That a group of travel agents makes some kind of quality control at the places where they send guests is a very good thing. That they charge a levy (beside the commission) is understandeable, but certainly not in the interest of the guests who if giving their business to "Virtuoso" might be deprived of nice places not accepting this business practice (but still can be excellent).
From several hoteliers I never heard a good thing regarding "Virtuoso". Typically they appear to charge exorbitant commissions up to 30 % and claiming that their clients are "affluent" create often problems at the property where they send them. The typical "Virtuoso" guest seems to behave in quite a self entitled way being "above others" and expecting better service than his/her fellow guests (for whatever reason). These are thoughts from hoteliers which I simply refer, but which made me have a bad image of "Virtuoso".
Please correct me!
Airlines did away with intermediaries charging commissions, when will the hoteliers follow? On the other hand a good travel agent is precious in a unfamiliar country with an even more unfamiliar language.
Last edited by behuman; Oct 18, 2012 at 11:48 pm
Oct 18, 2012, 11:24 pm
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: VCE
Posts: 14,165
Thank you for this enlightening post, but I still need some heads up regarding "Virtuoso".
That a group of travel agents makes some kind of quality control at the places where they send guests is a very good thing. That they charge a levy (beside the commission) is understandeable, but certainly not in the interest of the guests who if giving their business to "Virtuoso" might be deprived of nice places not accepting this business practice (but still can be excellent).
From several hoteliers I never heard a good thing regarding "Virtuoso". Typically they appear to charge exorbitant commissions up to 30 % and claiming that their clients are "affluent" create often problems at the property where they send them. The typical "Virtuoso" guest seems to behave in quite a self entitled way being "above others" and expecting better service than his/her felow guests (for whatever reason). These are thoughts from hoteliers which I simply refer, but which made me have a bad image of "Virtuooso".
Please correct me!
Airlines did away with intermediaries charging commissions, when will the hoteliers follow? On the other hand a good travel agent is precious in a unfamiliar country with an even more unfamiliar language.
That a group of travel agents makes some kind of quality control at the places where they send guests is a very good thing. That they charge a levy (beside the commission) is understandeable, but certainly not in the interest of the guests who if giving their business to "Virtuoso" might be deprived of nice places not accepting this business practice (but still can be excellent).
From several hoteliers I never heard a good thing regarding "Virtuoso". Typically they appear to charge exorbitant commissions up to 30 % and claiming that their clients are "affluent" create often problems at the property where they send them. The typical "Virtuoso" guest seems to behave in quite a self entitled way being "above others" and expecting better service than his/her felow guests (for whatever reason). These are thoughts from hoteliers which I simply refer, but which made me have a bad image of "Virtuooso".
Please correct me!
Airlines did away with intermediaries charging commissions, when will the hoteliers follow? On the other hand a good travel agent is precious in a unfamiliar country with an even more unfamiliar language.
Given the large amount of work Virtuoso puts into explaining their hotels to customers etc- it seems quite understandable there would be some investments required. Obviously if the program did not work there would not be participants.
Oct 19, 2012, 1:35 am
#10
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: my heart is on the shores of the north Italian lakes
Programs: LX Senator Lifetime, Relais&Chateaux Club5C, ex ! "Amanjunkie", ex LHW LC, hate chain hotels
Posts: 2,515
, but looking at the "Virtuoso" properties, a big percentage are uninspiring big chains where the hoteliers are rather just investors. "Virtuoso" seems to have a contract with Hyatt 
- not really my idea of individual luxury, even if preceeded by "Park".My hoteliers complaining were all of smaller properties and I think it is "Virtuoso" which raises the expectations and promises "freebies" and makes handling for the service provider difficult.
Oct 19, 2012, 1:45 am
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,797
what were talking about, regardless of amount, is referral spend
spend >
(https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/star...l#post25770775)
included because if it was alwaleed, he only owns 25% (edit - scratch that, owns 94% although plans to drop to 75%)
10 rooms ~$30K+ per night >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...otel-bill.html
wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204449804577068222867809742 >
politico.com/story/2015/09/four-seasons-king-salman-visit-red-carpet-213324 >
UK media also covered a maldives trip involving a buyout of 3 properties
elitetraveler.com/business/testimonials.html >
elitetraveler.com/business/testimonials/corinthia_testimonial.pdf $200K hotel booking
elitetraveler.com/business/testimonials/mbt.pdf $500K trip
elitetraveler.com/business/research.html
on topic of (guest/client) spend, aman vs FS revenue >
clients, incl gifts (and fischer tidbits) >
globalblackbook.com/?p=3361
globalblackbook.com/?p=10227
globalblackbook.com/a-perfect-dinner/
and >
departures.com/articles/is-st-barths-over
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...t-country.html
LHW fees >
~$450 per room sure seems better than 10% for the hotel
aman fees >
FS fees etc (from 2004 annual report) >
i had a couple comments on R&C docs here >
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...l#post18459362
behuman, R&C has scandals >
some more of above >
newsweek.com/resort-ones-own-90343
spend >
(https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/star...l#post25770775)
we have only had something like that happen to us once in recent years - at a 3* Michelin restaurant/hotel in Germany. In that case - we were comp'd very mightily. Better to comp us than offend the VIP best I could figure out. Still left a bad taste in my mouth.
Whatever the reason - there's no excuse for it. We once stayed at the Greenbriar in West Virginia - and I had a tennis lesson arranged. Was called up and told it was canceled - because General Alexander Haig (who was at the time a big deal) needed the courts adjacent to his empty. I called up to complain - and General Haig was told he was out of line. Either I could play next to him - or he could choose not to play. I played - he didn't. That's how a luxury property works IMO.
Whatever the reason - there's no excuse for it. We once stayed at the Greenbriar in West Virginia - and I had a tennis lesson arranged. Was called up and told it was canceled - because General Alexander Haig (who was at the time a big deal) needed the courts adjacent to his empty. I called up to complain - and General Haig was told he was out of line. Either I could play next to him - or he could choose not to play. I played - he didn't. That's how a luxury property works IMO.
I used to work for the Saudis and and this is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to booking out hotels and it is possible he will never actually set foot in the Maldives...I've even worked for someone who booked out several suites in the Cala Di Volpe hotel, just in case the boss needed the toilet whilst out and about...Yes, it gets more ludicrous.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...otel-bill.html
wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204449804577068222867809742 >
Originally Posted by WSJ
Waldorf Towers ... more than 150 rooms for several months
Originally Posted by Politico
Guests who had booked to stay at the Four Seasons [washington] during the royal visit [sept 3 4 5, 2015] have apparently been moved to other luxury hotels
Thursday morning, the Washington “power breakfast” crowd didn’t seem to mind being displaced from their regular dining spot at the hotel’s lower-level Seasons restaurant to the main floor’s Bourbon Steak, a move made to accommodate the king.
Thursday morning, the Washington “power breakfast” crowd didn’t seem to mind being displaced from their regular dining spot at the hotel’s lower-level Seasons restaurant to the main floor’s Bourbon Steak, a move made to accommodate the king.
FS NY >
penthouse http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/14144848-post12.html
presidential vs floor below http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/12298559-post34.html
penthouse http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/14144848-post12.html
presidential vs floor below http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/12298559-post34.html
elitetraveler.com/business/testimonials/corinthia_testimonial.pdf $200K hotel booking
elitetraveler.com/business/testimonials/mbt.pdf $500K trip
elitetraveler.com/business/research.html
on topic of (guest/client) spend, aman vs FS revenue >
this should be right, i remember source articles >
source i remember for 1999 >
In 1999 the Amanresorts' estimated sales totaled $50 million. Operating profits totaled $15 million despite an occupancy rate of only 50% last year (the five Amanresorts in troubled Indonesia dragged the chain down from its usual 65% occupancy). That works out to $41,000 annual operating profit per room (there were 365 rooms in 1999
Four Seasons...11,088 rooms...annual operating profit per room was $5,500 in 1999
Four Seasons...11,088 rooms...annual operating profit per room was $5,500 in 1999
the vice president of a luxury hotel group called me up because he couldn’t get a VIP into one of their own hotels on a holiday. He told me, and I called the hotel and I got his VIP in. When he asked the hotel how his VIP got in they said, “we always take care of Mr. Fischer.”
contacted every single person we knew...friend of a friend, who knew a lawyer that represented a Formula One racing team, and was a friend of Ferran...clients...returned the next day with gifts for all the Chefs, and so began our relationship with El Bulli, where from that day forward we could always get a table
friend who knew a Sous Chef at a restaurant in Chicago who had a friend who worked in the kitchen at The French Laundry...introduced us to the right people...Manager...delighted with the quality of our guests and please keep them coming
French Laundry goes way back to the days when we couldn't get a reservation. After we convinced the lady on the phone that we had clients they wanted in their restaurant, and they did us proud by spending a fortune on wine, our lives became much easier
Originally Posted by MDatJeffersonHotel
King Faisal from Saudi Arabia used to give out gold Rolexes instead of cash for tips, and once just left the keys to his Mercedes for his favorite doorman
On the phone to a reservations agent, Mr. Fischer is not above dropping the names of his famous clients, implying that if a hotel can accommodate client X, then a Calvin Klein or a Diane Sawyer might be steered there in the near future. One former client, however, gave a different explanation for Mr. Fischer's success: he overpays enormously for hotel rooms, and tips the staff of hot restaurants and hotels extravagantly, passing the costs back to his too-rich-to-complain clients.
''When you walk into a hotel and they know he sent you, they treat you very well -- it's like when a sugar daddy walks in and spreads the money around,'' said the former client, who spoke on condition of anonymity. He said he ceased using Mr. Fischer several years ago because he thought he was being gouged. ''He charges off the charts for everything,'' the former client said.
Responding to the claim that he gets results by lavishly greasing palms, Mr. Fischer said: ''Absolutely not. We send them clients and they like who we send. I show them my list; it's a 'Who's Who' list. We're sending the kind of people who are not going to complain and will pay for anything. The hotels want our clients.''
''When you walk into a hotel and they know he sent you, they treat you very well -- it's like when a sugar daddy walks in and spreads the money around,'' said the former client, who spoke on condition of anonymity. He said he ceased using Mr. Fischer several years ago because he thought he was being gouged. ''He charges off the charts for everything,'' the former client said.
Responding to the claim that he gets results by lavishly greasing palms, Mr. Fischer said: ''Absolutely not. We send them clients and they like who we send. I show them my list; it's a 'Who's Who' list. We're sending the kind of people who are not going to complain and will pay for anything. The hotels want our clients.''
We had a call from one of our clients who said you’ve got to get me a room for my number one client, I don’t care what it costs. I said give me his name. He said Sandy Weill. I said ‘Sandy Weill? He’s the President of American Express. He can’t get a room?’ We got him the room.
[GM] Christian even experimented by playing music during breakfast, and a few minutes later, he recalls, “the owner called me from New York telling me to turn it off. I guess one of the guests had complained straight away about ruining the atmosphere.”
LHW fees >
55% of LHW's income comes from membership fees, adjusted according to the number of hotel bedrooms, with the remaining 45% accounted for by the 10% fee charged on all transactions
transaction fee should be abolished and replaced by each hotel signing up three regular guests per room to the Leaders loyalty programme.
currently been trialled at 50 hotels worldwide, with a view to introducing it across the entire portfolio of hotels in 2013.
revenue for the company grew from $546m (£350m) in 2010 to $613m (£392m) in 2011.
transaction fee should be abolished and replaced by each hotel signing up three regular guests per room to the Leaders loyalty programme.
currently been trialled at 50 hotels worldwide, with a view to introducing it across the entire portfolio of hotels in 2013.
revenue for the company grew from $546m (£350m) in 2010 to $613m (£392m) in 2011.
The fees received by Four Seasons are broadly based, typically consisting of:
• base fees, generally a percentage of the hotel’s total revenues: approximately 3%
• incentive fees, generally calculated on the hotel’s adjusted gross operating profits:
approximately 5%
• fees for services such as:
– design and pre-opening consultation
–management of facilities such as residentialproperties or golf courses
–licensing of the Four Seasons brand name
Four Seasons management contracts are exceptionally long term:
• new management contracts average 60 to 80 years
• the remaining term of existing contracts (assuming renewals) averages 52years
• the average term for the remaining properties expected to open in 2005 or early 2006
is 53 years
• non-disturbance clauses with hotel owners and lenders are intended to ensure the
continuity of our contracts upon the sale, refinancing or foreclosure of a property
• base fees, generally a percentage of the hotel’s total revenues: approximately 3%
• incentive fees, generally calculated on the hotel’s adjusted gross operating profits:
approximately 5%
• fees for services such as:
– design and pre-opening consultation
–management of facilities such as residentialproperties or golf courses
–licensing of the Four Seasons brand name
Four Seasons management contracts are exceptionally long term:
• new management contracts average 60 to 80 years
• the remaining term of existing contracts (assuming renewals) averages 52years
• the average term for the remaining properties expected to open in 2005 or early 2006
is 53 years
• non-disturbance clauses with hotel owners and lenders are intended to ensure the
continuity of our contracts upon the sale, refinancing or foreclosure of a property
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/luxur...l#post18459362
behuman, R&C has scandals
>http://www.france24.com/en/20120911-...relais-chateau
After the Hotel du Cap Eden Roc scandal last year, another example of the always righteous behaviour of my fellow citizens ...
After the Hotel du Cap Eden Roc scandal last year, another example of the always righteous behaviour of my fellow citizens ...
telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8940405/Relais-and-Chateaux-hotel-club-rocked-by-corruption-scandal.html
former R&C president investigated for embezzling money and stays
6 years after he left position, only coming out because of Villepin's involvement?
and michelin and >
former R&C president investigated for embezzling money and stays
6 years after he left position, only coming out because of Villepin's involvement?
newsweek.com/resort-ones-own-90343
Hotel Quisisana...50-room reservation...$830,000...when the party ended, the 100-plus guests boarded the yachts... "They just used the rooms to get dressed and change," says hotel director
Amanpuri...rents out all 30 pavilions and 40 private villas for $100,000 a day to certain discreet parties.
Rome's Cavalieri Hotel, an American couple recently booked 48 of the 370 rooms for a toga party.
blocked all 25 rooms onboard a Bora Bora cruise
reserved the Hotel Rosa Alpina, a 50-room...for 18 friends...helicopter rides to Venice...two-star Michelin chef on call for picnic lunches. One of the first bookings for The Regent Bordeaux...family planning a sightseeing trip who rented the entire top floor so the children and nanny could spread out.
Park Hotel Weggis launched a "Rent-a-Resort" three-day package starting at $111,000 for all 43 guest rooms, general manager Peter Kampfer expected it to be used mainly for corporate retreats. "But we are seeing that 40 percent of the bookings are from individuals
London's Draycott Hotel...40th birthday, reserving 20 of the 35 rooms.
Amanpuri...rents out all 30 pavilions and 40 private villas for $100,000 a day to certain discreet parties.
Rome's Cavalieri Hotel, an American couple recently booked 48 of the 370 rooms for a toga party.
blocked all 25 rooms onboard a Bora Bora cruise
reserved the Hotel Rosa Alpina, a 50-room...for 18 friends...helicopter rides to Venice...two-star Michelin chef on call for picnic lunches. One of the first bookings for The Regent Bordeaux...family planning a sightseeing trip who rented the entire top floor so the children and nanny could spread out.
Park Hotel Weggis launched a "Rent-a-Resort" three-day package starting at $111,000 for all 43 guest rooms, general manager Peter Kampfer expected it to be used mainly for corporate retreats. "But we are seeing that 40 percent of the bookings are from individuals
London's Draycott Hotel...40th birthday, reserving 20 of the 35 rooms.
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Jan 22, 2019 at 11:20 am
Oct 22, 2012, 1:54 am
#12
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: my heart is on the shores of the north Italian lakes
Programs: LX Senator Lifetime, Relais&Chateaux Club5C, ex ! "Amanjunkie", ex LHW LC, hate chain hotels
Posts: 2,515
Virtuoso ma non troppo
They are quite silent seems it
- perhaps things are going less smooth than we think.I digged into their website these last days and came to the following conclusions:
- Virtuoso focuses only on The Americas and Australia/New Zealand as customer base - these are the options on their website for customers.
- Their property choice in general is good, but not very inspired - one can get any reputable guide LHW, R&C, Lodges of Australia/New Zealand to get the same.
- They have a very disturbing connection with Hyatt (I don't care if "Park" or not). For me this is NOT luxury.
Oct 22, 2012, 2:33 am
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: VCE
Posts: 14,165
They are quite silent seems it - perhaps things are going less smooth than we think.
I digged into their website these last days and came to the following conclusions:
- Virtuoso focuses only on The Americas and Australia/New Zealand as customer base - these are the options on their website for customers.
- Their property choice in general is good, but not very inspired - one can get any reputable guide LHW, R&C, Lodges of Australia/New Zealand to get the same.
- They have a very disturbing connection with Hyatt (I don't care if "Park" or not). For me this is NOT luxury.
- perhaps things are going less smooth than we think.I digged into their website these last days and came to the following conclusions:
- Virtuoso focuses only on The Americas and Australia/New Zealand as customer base - these are the options on their website for customers.
- Their property choice in general is good, but not very inspired - one can get any reputable guide LHW, R&C, Lodges of Australia/New Zealand to get the same.
- They have a very disturbing connection with Hyatt (I don't care if "Park" or not). For me this is NOT luxury.
1. There are a good number of European customers with Virtuoso- including some of us in North Italy
2. I find that working with a Virtuoso advisor- they will also find very interesting choices for you that are not in the property choices and have a lot of knowledge about the properties
3. I don't find anything disturbing about Hyatt (Park or otherwise)- not all are luxury however in a number of markets they have beautiful properties including Milano. If I don't want to stay at a corporate hotel I simply specify that and it always works out. Some cities are easier than others to accomplish this in BTW. By the same token as their relationship with Hyatt I suppose you could say that Virtuoso has a "disturbing" relationship with Aman.
Oct 22, 2012, 8:31 am
#14
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: my heart is on the shores of the north Italian lakes
Programs: LX Senator Lifetime, Relais&Chateaux Club5C, ex ! "Amanjunkie", ex LHW LC, hate chain hotels
Posts: 2,515
A few comments (but not too many)
1. There are a good number of European customers with Virtuoso- including some of us in North Italy
2. I find that working with a Virtuoso advisor- they will also find very interesting choices for you that are not in the property choices and have a lot of knowledge about the properties
3. I don't find anything disturbing about Hyatt (Park or otherwise)- not all are luxury however in a number of markets they have beautiful properties including Milano. If I don't want to stay at a corporate hotel I simply specify that and it always works out. Some cities are easier than others to accomplish this in BTW. By the same token as their relationship with Hyatt I suppose you could say that Virtuoso has a "disturbing" relationship with Aman.
1. There are a good number of European customers with Virtuoso- including some of us in North Italy
2. I find that working with a Virtuoso advisor- they will also find very interesting choices for you that are not in the property choices and have a lot of knowledge about the properties
3. I don't find anything disturbing about Hyatt (Park or otherwise)- not all are luxury however in a number of markets they have beautiful properties including Milano. If I don't want to stay at a corporate hotel I simply specify that and it always works out. Some cities are easier than others to accomplish this in BTW. By the same token as their relationship with Hyatt I suppose you could say that Virtuoso has a "disturbing" relationship with Aman.
Now we only have to solve the commission problem
, but I doubt we will.And I persist in suspecting there is something more involved with Hyatt. Unlike Aman, Hyatt does not exactly represent (with exceptions as you state) what Virtuoso pretends to be
.
Oct 22, 2012, 8:36 am
#15
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Canada
Programs: Virtuoso TA, Four Seasons Pref Partner, Rosewood Elite TA, Ritz Carlton STARS TA
Posts: 4,737