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flysurfer Apr 4, 06 5:16 am


Originally Posted by Tyrolean
I know FTL who swiched about 10.000 Euro of travelbudget (Yes you can be FTL with that budget and not SEN!) for lower reasons.

10,000 EUR = 4x ZSPEC MUC-LAX = 4x 27,000 miles = 108,000 miles = SEN.

nixande Apr 4, 06 5:28 am

a) a lot of smaller flights and not the long ones
b) being a German means afair >13x000 miles to become SEN

Grog Apr 4, 06 5:52 am

deleted

flysurfer Apr 4, 06 6:10 am


Originally Posted by nixande
b) being a German means afair >13x000 miles to become SEN

Nobody said everybody spending 10k will be SEN. I just said that it's not true that nobody can be SEN for 10k.

Actually, you can be SEN ex Germany for less than half that money. A typical V fare MUC-LAX averages at EUR 700 and brings in 15,000 status miles. 7 flights in a calendar year will easily bring you over the 100,000 miles threshold, that's EUR 4900. And V is even upgradable.

If you insist on a German mailing address, add 2 more flights for EUR 1400.

DFW-SEN Apr 4, 06 6:14 am


Originally Posted by flysurfer
That's just not true. The unfrequent Z flyer (me, for example) likes status, because he also has cheap domestic and European flights (T,E,U). He (me) also likes award miles and vouchers, as he likes to upgrade his unfrequent Z flights to F (when there's space) or to book the occasional F award trip for himself or family & friends. So he (me) gives his loyalty (revenue & profit) to LH instead of always choosing the airline/alliance with the cheapest Z fare.

...

So my guess is that LH understands that this special type of "ZSHOT" (me) is important for their bottom line. That's why they hand out the perks to keep the ZSHOT (me) loyal. Also consider that ZSHOTs like me are decision-makers. We are free to decide when to fly, what COS to fly and with carrier to chosse. So we are more easily lost to the competition than a business traveller working for a huge multinational with negotiated fares and many internal travel rules. Since I VOLUNTARILY give LH more than 15,000 EUR of my private money in annual revenue for 12 longhaul seats that would probably stay empty (or filled with upgraders) at least half of the time, I guess I might not be such a bad customer after all.


I fully agree with you and you describe exactly my behaviour / decision process for my 12 annul trips from DFW to Germany.

Cheers, Stefan

DFW-SEN Apr 4, 06 6:17 am


Originally Posted by Tyrolean
BTW what are the costs of an FTL?
....
- Priority check-in - no cost
- Lounge use - only LH-Biz-Lounges. The lounges are there anyway so only the food (which food) and drinks consumed count (Average 5 Euro)
If you distribute all the fixed lounge costs on all Biz-Pax and FTL it wont be hight as well.

If they give to many people acess to these perks, there are reaal cost asociated, as they need to increase capacity or higly devaluate the value for the "higher yield" FTLs.

Cheers, Stefan

Volasia Apr 4, 06 6:18 am


Originally Posted by flysurfer
Nobody said everybody spending 10k will be SEN. I just said that it's not true that nobody can be SEN for 10k.

Actually, you can be SEN ex Germany for less than half that money. A typical V fare MUC-LAX averages at EUR 700 and brings in 15,000 status miles. 7 flights in a calendar year will easily bring you over the 100,000 miles threshold, that's EUR 4900. And V is even upgradable.

If you insist on a German mailing address, add 2 more flights for EUR 1400.

OK, but who goes to LA, 7 times a year in Y (so in theory leisure trips).
Anyway, your point is a fair point, and it is actually far more easy to be silver or gold with M&M than let's say BA. There, you have no chance at all of being silver unless you buy flexible tickets (B,Y)

flysurfer Apr 4, 06 6:23 am


Originally Posted by Fly-Swiss
OK, but who goes to LA, 7 times a year in Y (so in theory leisure trips).

I did. For several years. And friends of mine I know keep doing it until today.

Luckily, my years of Y are over. :D

And since your post concedes that we are a rare species, you actually fuel my argument. ;) To keep us, the rare species, loyal (as we are paying significant $$$ for seats with a high probability of staying empty otherwise), LH has to give a little sumthin extra. And as long as they keep doing that, I'll stick with them.

totti Apr 4, 06 6:28 am


Originally Posted by Fly-Swiss
OK, but who goes to LA, 7 times a year in Y (so in theory leisure trips).
Anyway, your point is a fair point, and it is actually far more easy to be silver or gold with M&M than let's say BA. There, you have no chance at all of being silver unless you buy flexible tickets (B,Y)

Just as a side note: if it just comes down to status BA Gold is much more easy to earn than SEN. You can buy cheap (or lets say restricted) C tickets e.g. FRA-LHR for less than 250 EUR. Each of this return trips will earn 80 point and with a non UK/USA address you only need 5 of this trips to be silver (~1250 EUR) or 15 from zero to Gold (~1250 EUR + 2500 EUR = 3750 EUR).

nixande Apr 4, 06 6:37 am

Being able to access a oneowrld lounge every time you fly even though not on BA is a reason for me to consider going for gold.

While you need 1200 points (400 for silver and 800 additional for gold) at the first time, you only need the 800 points to retain it.

And if you have one RTW ticket in business, you can make silver, gold and renew gold in one trip with a crazy itenerary - or make it a bit less problematic.

On contrair to that you need to fly once 13x000 miles to get it but after that you only need it every two years. But looking at the restrictions for SEN I am actually going for BA Gold instead.

They don't have enough flights for example inner German, but if I fly from HAm to bigger German airports, they usually have a BA lounge available. ;)

flysurfer Apr 4, 06 6:38 am

I remember flying MUC-xFRA-xSFO-LAX-SYD-xSFO-xFRA-MUC on UA in C (upgraded from Y with 1 op-up and 2 SWUs) in April 2004 for about EUR 1000. If I had taken this trip during UA's annual double EQM promo period, I'd have risen from zero to *G (PremEx) with this ticket alone.

SleepOverGreenland Apr 4, 06 7:33 am


Originally Posted by flysurfer
That's just not true. The unfrequent Z flyer (me, for example) likes status(...) the profit is considerable simply BECAUSE that C seat would otherwise have stayed empty with a significant probability.
(...) Since I VOLUNTARILY give LH more than 15,000 EUR of my private money in annual revenue for 12 longhaul seats that would probably stay empty (or filled with upgraders) at least half of the time, I guess I might not be such a bad customer after all.

Although I agree in general with your statement, I slightly disagree with your assumption of empty (unsold) C seats. It happens just to often, that about 2 weeks ahead of a requested flight some of my employees (just M&M or FTL) can't get a seat anymore in paid C. Sold out - so sorry. No problem for HONs and SENs and maybe LH keeps some free seats for this group and the last minute bookings - I don't know. But I know for sure, that we have to plan very carefully and long time ahead for our non-frequent M&Ms and FTLs travelling, e.g. with optional bookings. Based on our experience this has been true for several destinations in USA, including SFO, ORD, ATL, MIA, DEN, IAD.

Starbucks Apr 4, 06 7:57 am


Originally Posted by totti
Just as a side note: if it just comes down to status BA Gold is much more easy to earn than SEN. You can buy cheap (or lets say restricted) C tickets e.g. FRA-LHR for less than 250 EUR. Each of this return trips will earn 80 point and with a non UK/USA address you only need 5 of this trips to be silver (~1250 EUR) or 15 from zero to Gold (~1250 EUR + 2500 EUR = 3750 EUR).

IMHO it doesnt matter which programm, if you are smart enough to understand the rules and keep yourself informed about any possible discount-, RTW-, ex XXX-fares, gaining status is easy and affordable - IF you want it and are willig to pay for it.

Concerning the recent changes:
There might be some cool Consulting guys out there who are mad that their company doesnt pay C anymore and they are going to loose their twice weekly SEN-Lounge Happening plus C check-in. But as stated before - times changed.

flysurfer Apr 4, 06 8:05 am


Originally Posted by SleepOverGreenland
Although I agree in general with your statement, I slightly disagree with your assumption of empty (unsold) C seats. It happens just to often, that about 2 weeks ahead of a requested flight some of my employees (just M&M or FTL) can't get a seat anymore in paid C. Sold out - so sorry. No problem for HONs and SENs and maybe LH keeps some free seats for this group and the last minute bookings - I don't know. But I know for sure, that we have to plan very carefully and long time ahead for our non-frequent M&Ms and FTLs travelling, e.g. with optional bookings. Based on our experience this has been true for several destinations in USA, including SFO, ORD, ATL, MIA, DEN, IAD.

I agree, and that's why I said that seats stay empty on about HALF of the flights. The other half is indeed sold out, which obviously isn't too bad for LH in any case.LH could resolve this problem by taking your full-fare C booking and calling a few ZSHOTs, offering them 500 EUR or similar to change their flight date. They gave me 500 EUR for flying to LAX on Saturday instead of Sunday on an O award. So it's not impossible.

Volasia Apr 4, 06 8:07 am


Originally Posted by totti
Just as a side note: if it just comes down to status BA Gold is much more easy to earn than SEN. You can buy cheap (or lets say restricted) C tickets e.g. FRA-LHR for less than 250 EUR. Each of this return trips will earn 80 point and with a non UK/USA address you only need 5 of this trips to be silver (~1250 EUR) or 15 from zero to Gold (~1250 EUR + 2500 EUR = 3750 EUR).

Thank you for this info, I didn't know. I might consider BA in the future...


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