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-   Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, Brussels, LOT and Other Partners | Miles & More (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/lufthansa-austrian-swiss-brussels-lot-other-partners-miles-more-495/)
-   -   New "improvements" of M&M 1 April 2006 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/lufthansa-austrian-swiss-brussels-lot-other-partners-miles-more/508854-new-improvements-m-m-1-april-2006-a.html)

SmilingBoy Jan 27, 06 7:53 am


Originally Posted by LH-STR
Unfortunately not.

A few days ago I was on a one day trip to VIE with Germanwings. I was finished earlier as expected and so I had to wait 2 hours at the airport. I wanted to enter the SEN Lounge, presented my SEN Card. The lady asked for my bording pass. I told her that I do not fly with them and she kicked me out. She told me that the rules have changed and I need a *A Ticket to enter.

That seems to be a difference between Austrian Airlines and Lufthansa.

Lufthansa rules (German version, the English translation is not clear at all):

"Mit der Lufthansa Sentor Karte haben Sie Zugang zu den Lufthansa Senator Lounges. Zu den Star Alliance Lounges haben Sie weltweit mit der Lufthansa Senator Card in Verbindung mit einem Lufthansa oder Star Alliance Ticket am Reisetag vor Ihrem Abflug Zutritt. Zusätzlich stehen Ihnen bei Ankunft die Lufthansa Senator Lounges in Frankfurt, München, Düsseldorf und New York JFK zur Verfügung."


Austrian Airlines rules:

"Nutzung der Austrian Airlines und Lufthansa Senator Lounges und der Star Alliance Lounges weltweit mit einer Begleitperson in Verbindung mit einem Austrian Airlines Group oder Star Alliance Ticket am Reisetag vor dem Abflug."


Both rules are from the Miles&More website - the first one from Miles&More Lufthansa, the second one from Miles&More Austrian - from the section on the benefits of the Senator card.

Didn't know that either.

SmilingBoy.

sentom Jan 27, 06 1:46 pm


Originally Posted by LH-STR
Unfortunately not.

A few days ago I was on a one day trip to VIE with Germanwings. I was finished earlier as expected and so I had to wait 2 hours at the airport. I wanted to enter the SEN Lounge, presented my SEN Card. The lady asked for my bording pass. I told her that I do not fly with them and she kicked me out. She told me that the rules have changed and I need a *A Ticket to enter.

thats correct but only in VIE. OS changed the rules last september i think, since then you need a *A boarding pass to get into their SEN and C lounges...

travelretailer Apr 2, 06 1:46 am

LH new program rule - requalification only with status miles!
 
This is no April 1 joke (too bad) but when I surfed our new Swiss / M&M program rules I was shocked to read that, from now on, requalification for status levels (silver, gold, hons) will ONLY be based on status miles, ie they seem to have dropped the flight segment requalification.
Obviously with LH's purely revenue-based approach (only 50% of miles on most eco tariffs) it will be a long way to go to get 100K / 130K each year.
Did anyone else notice this? I get the feeling they really snuck this one through a back door while we were all busy with the Swiss merger changes...

Tyrolean Apr 2, 06 3:00 am

The news is quite old. The program-changes are online since the beginning of the year. They have been discussed before there are more "Imporvementes":

- FTL cannot take a guest into the lounges
which wont make them more empty as during the times when it is corwded the companions are only a diminishing minority.

- Requalification by Status-Miles only
(so bad if you only fly domestic flights even in C-Class!). In the past I chose sometimes LH on cheap fares because I got one Segment. Now i am free and DBA gives better service in Eco. So form this year on: Only LH when I fly Biz or there is no competition.

Beeing FTL is now worhtless for the people who fly for biz during the week and want to take out their spouse for a weekend-trip: No Lounge-Access and no segment for requal and nearly no miles.

Ventimiglia Apr 2, 06 3:12 am

Hi travelretailer,

it might be your feeling that “most eco tariffs” earn only 50% miles flown. On booking classes B and Y you will earn 150%, on G, H, K, M, Q, V you will earn 100% and on S and W you will earn 50% of miles flown. If you travelling most of the time on either on S or W fares, it’s more likely that Miles & More don’t fit you best.

I neither agree that Miles & More has a „purely revenue-based approach” (there are different fares out of different markets using the same booking class) nor that Miles & More “snuck [the program changes] through a back door”.

Finally what made you "busy with the Swiss merger changes"?

Grog Apr 2, 06 3:11 pm


Originally Posted by Ventimiglia
I neither agree that Miles & More has a „purely revenue-based approach” (there are different fares out of different markets using the same booking class) nor that Miles & More “snuck [the program changes] through a back door”.

Hi Ventimiglia,

Agree with the first point but can't agree at all with your second point.

These changes WERE snuck in, long after everyone would have earned FTL (or decided to drop from SEN) and settled in for the benefits that they were led to believe they would have for the next two years. Even the brochures sent to new FTLs just two months ago said lounge access for companions for the next two years.

Instead, they got those benefits for a maximum of only 3 months, but probably much less depending on when they received their card. Not nice, but typical.

fradoc Apr 2, 06 6:57 pm


Originally Posted by Tyrolean
Beeing FTL is now worhtless for the people who fly for biz during the week and want to take out their spouse for a weekend-trip: No Lounge-Access and no segment for requal and nearly no miles.

The takeaway of the lounge companion perk really sucks. Now, I have to convince my wife even more why I go for all those miles-if they are worthless anyway ;). Hope to make UA *G by the end of the year...

BTW: Travelling with my GF (now wife) or on Sundays, I never encountered crowded FTL/C lounges. This was even more true at non-hub
Airports (CDG, ATH, TXL).

Rudi Apr 2, 06 7:05 pm


Originally Posted by fradoc
... Hope to make UA *G by the end of the year...

Be aware that *Gold with Mileage Plus (UA) doesn't even qualify the bearer himself to lounge access (Red Carpet Club) while travelling UA on inner USA routes ...

fradoc Apr 2, 06 7:36 pm


Originally Posted by Rudi
Be aware that *Gold with Mileage Plus (UA) doesn't even qualify the bearer himself to lounge access (Red Carpet Club) while travelling UA on inner USA routes ...

Yep, I am. But should work at home...

bertheike Apr 3, 06 4:16 am


Originally Posted by Ventimiglia
Hi travelretailer,

it might be your feeling that “most eco tariffs” earn only 50% miles flown. On booking classes B and Y you will earn 150%, on G, H, K, M, Q, V you will earn 100% and on S and W you will earn 50% of miles flown. If you travelling most of the time on either on S or W fares, it’s more likely that Miles & More don’t fit you best.

I neither agree that Miles & More has a „purely revenue-based approach” (there are different fares out of different markets using the same booking class) nor that Miles & More “snuck [the program changes] through a back door”.

Finally what made you "busy with the Swiss merger changes"?

I agree with travelretailer, LH`s M&L becomes more and more „purely revenue-based approach” !
E and T class within Germany are the fares comparable with LCC ( net. under 75 Euro per rt. ) and these only bring 125 miles o.w. ! So for FTL one has to fly 140 returns or 280 segments ! For SEN (100k) it is 400 rt´s and SEN 130k even 520 rt´s !
G H K M Q S V W bring 500 miles per segment. but the cheapest normal rt domestic is normaly a QBASIC which costs around 115 Euro rt. followed by Hbasic 140 Euro ( sure all this are net rates++ )
So for the purly domestic traveller it would be 130 roundtrips Qbasic which are around 115 +40 YQ ( for me YQ = fare and no fees ) + around 35 Euro real taxes/fees. more or less 20.000 Euro for LH + 5000 Euro taxes/fees.
However not really absorbierend. Bevore it was less than half of that ! 60 rt´s.
Not that I complain about that, because I never had more than 15-20 domestics per year, and these always bevore and after longhauls. But those OP refered to, now should look for another FFP.
may be BD´s DC. Here Lufthansa M, H, Q, V, W, S, G class earns 50 % at least minimum 50% from 600 = 300 and for *gold one needs only 38k.
So one is still *gold with 64 Qbasics. ( not to speak about the much better spending ratio )
Or UA Iam not so familar with UA´s program but it says
    Do they also have minnimum miles ? And how about E class ? This is cheaper than L/T ?

    asif_ebrahim Apr 3, 06 4:22 am

    From what i understood about the new improvements it is possible to book one way award flights with Lufthansa. However i cannot see where to do this on their online booking system. Any ideas ?

    Tyrolean Apr 3, 06 5:10 am


    Originally Posted by bertheike
    I agree with travelretailer, LH`s M&L becomes more and more „purely revenue-based approach” !

    It is true if you fly only domestic. The domestic-only flyers - even in hight booking classes - are kicked.
    The only thing that counts is Longhaul:
    Just fly MUC-SYD not booked in W or S for about 700 to 1000 Euro and you will get about 20.000 Miles closer to your status.
    Add a Trip to the US West coast for about 700 Euro and you are very close to FTL (which lost lots of its worth!).

    If you only put your butt in domestic flights you need a lot of flying.
    So LH does not like domestic flyers. Domestic is only for connecting to Long-haul. 125 or 500 miles + Executive Bonus is not the kind of incentive that makes me using LH on domestic services.

    totti Apr 3, 06 6:22 am


    Originally Posted by Tyrolean
    which lost lots of its worth!

    Why do you think it lost lots of its worth? The only perk that has vanished is the invitation to bring a guest to the lounge. Not that special, if you ask me, but may hurt some FTL's for sure. But that's it. The other perks remain on a low level (as they were before).

    I doubt that we'll see a lot more FTL's in future (because of the new 35K limit to get it). This change only applies to german residents and AFAIK a lot of them got their status by segments, which is not possible anymore. And as you pointed out it will be hard to earn on domestic flights anyway.


    Domestic is only for connecting to Long-haul. 125 or 500 miles + Executive Bonus is not the kind of incentive that makes me using LH on domestic services.
    I'd wish that the miles were the only reason (or "incentive") for me to use LH on domestic service. But at the german airports and routes I fly most (like FRA-TXL, MUC-TXL etc.), there are no real alternatives to LH, if you need to be flexible. :( For example DBA is quite okay, but only offers a few flights per day.

    flysurfer Apr 3, 06 6:46 am

    FTL status requires 35k status miles and lasts for at least 2 years.

    In order to fly 35k status mile, one single longhaul trip in discounted C can be sufficient.

    I can't see how a single trip with LH in 2 years makes you a "frequent flyer" with them.

    Hence, IMHO, the whole "FTL" thing is not to be taken too seriously. SEN status is easy, too. UA 1K is much more difficult to maintain. There's a huge gap between SEN and HON requirements.

    Tyrolean Apr 3, 06 7:20 am


    Originally Posted by flysurfer
    FTL status requires 35k status miles and lasts for at least 2 years.

    In order to fly 35k status mile, one single longhaul trip in discounted C can be sufficient.

    I can't see how a single trip with LH in 2 years makes you a "frequent flyer" with them.

    Hence, IMHO, the whole "FTL" thing is not to be taken too seriously. SEN status is easy, too. UA 1K is much more difficult to maintain. There's a huge gap between SEN and HON requirements.

    This is exactly what I ment:
    Person A flyes one or two Longhauls in Discounted C
    Person B flyes LH many times many weeks domestically

    A and B will get the same Status. Who is more loyal?

    A will get the status much cheaper
    B will now get his status much harder - even if not flying in deep discounted tickets.

    But B has most usage of the FTL Status: Lounge and Biz-Check-In.
    Who is more loyal? In my opinion B but he will be kicked!

    You only see the benefits of an FTL when you are nothing:
    Long Lines on the Eco-Check in. Waiting in crowded Waiting areas.
    Bad possibility to rebook because a SEN or FTL bumps you off a waitinglist.


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