Covid19: M&M Elite Status Extensions?
May 28, 2020, 5:24 am
#181
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
Forgive yet another question about an individual's situation, but ......
..... I'm already befuddled after working through Lufthansa's obfuscations about vouchers, refunds, cancellations and rescheduling, and dealing with my flight bookings through September.
I've now turned my attention to my senatorship.
...my current two-year cycle began January of this year, Given the shunting forward of New M&M, I have two one-year periods in which i can requalify, year 2020 and year 2021. That bit seems incontrovertible.
Year 2020 is pretty unlikely to see 10k miles, never mind 100,000
Year 2021 should be fine. But would requalification in 2021 carry me through a new 2-year cycle to January 2024, skipping the first two year of New M&M ?
I've now turned my attention to my senatorship.
...my current two-year cycle began January of this year, Given the shunting forward of New M&M, I have two one-year periods in which i can requalify, year 2020 and year 2021. That bit seems incontrovertible.
Year 2020 is pretty unlikely to see 10k miles, never mind 100,000
Year 2021 should be fine. But would requalification in 2021 carry me through a new 2-year cycle to January 2024, skipping the first two year of New M&M ?
May 28, 2020, 5:40 am
#182
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Birmingham, UK
Programs: LH HON**
Posts: 147
May 28, 2020, 5:49 am
#183
Join Date: Aug 2011
Programs: Star Alliance Gold, Oneworld Silver
Posts: 778
If you currently expire at end Feb 22 and do 100K status miles in 2021 then, yes, you would be SEN until end Feb 24 due to the changes in the status structure being postponed from 01.10.21 to 01.01.22.
Jun 16, 2020, 2:31 am
#187
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: DUS/AMS/HAM
Programs: HH-D / IHG-Sp / Marriott-P / LH-SEN / BA-S
Posts: 215
Good to know that he is nice and smart and openly tells you why M&M does what it does. The only issue someone who gives that communication with that message in that style is that people who do not know him personally take away an impression of someone quite junior put in charge of something so important, someone not incredibly competent, and that LH actually has doubts about its own decisions. As such, not a very smart corporate discussion.
Jul 2, 2020, 3:31 pm
#188
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: MIA
Programs: LH HON, AA PLT, DL PM
Posts: 21
...just want to bump this up and see if anyone has any intel/thoughts/concerns....additionally would be helpful to hear thoughts with respect to non-EU based M&M SEN/HON's.
Can't wait to get back in the air...I for one have made sure to at least indulge in some caviar and balik salmon and while I do enjoy both on the ground they certainly taste much better at FL360.
Hope that everyone is healthy and safe!
Can't wait to get back in the air...I for one have made sure to at least indulge in some caviar and balik salmon and while I do enjoy both on the ground they certainly taste much better at FL360.
Hope that everyone is healthy and safe!
Jul 4, 2020, 2:17 pm
#189
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: FRA
Posts: 582
Q:At the end I see one very worrying approach:
A:The market and the needs of customers are currently changing. Does this also apply to frequent flyers?
It is true that the needs of customers are changed. In the past, priority services such as luggage, seat access, lounge and fast track were very important. Today the focus is more on elements such as stability of a flight plan or just flexibility. We will have to work together with our partner airlines and customers to jointly develop a privilege package.
So, dear Lufthansa, for me as frequent flyer ONLY important parts of privilege programs are: Lounge, Ground service (HON/F), Priority and frankly everything described on priviliges part for now.
I believe that is same for absolute most of us.
Stability of flight plan can never be privilege of loyalty program.
If airline try to cut any of the privileges, it will very quickly start to loose loyal clients.
A:The market and the needs of customers are currently changing. Does this also apply to frequent flyers?
It is true that the needs of customers are changed. In the past, priority services such as luggage, seat access, lounge and fast track were very important. Today the focus is more on elements such as stability of a flight plan or just flexibility. We will have to work together with our partner airlines and customers to jointly develop a privilege package.
So, dear Lufthansa, for me as frequent flyer ONLY important parts of privilege programs are: Lounge, Ground service (HON/F), Priority and frankly everything described on priviliges part for now.
I believe that is same for absolute most of us.
Stability of flight plan can never be privilege of loyalty program.
If airline try to cut any of the privileges, it will very quickly start to loose loyal clients.
Unfortunately, LH seems to think that we need to fly anyway and we are in need of Lufthansa. And they seem to think that we are all willing to take all their decisions of cost cutting.
What they do not understand is the fact that many of the HON flyers actually do not need Lufthansa, especially for shorter flights. There are many HONs out there who can simply afford private jet or limousine services.
Lufthansa seems to believe that they may reduce fares a little bit and we fly again.
They have been in a very difficult situation. However, they had a lot of time to plan for the upcoming months. They however simply did nothing. They never asked the HONs what they actually require in order to start flying again.
Fact is that me and several of my friends went to zero flights with Lufthansa, after having flown them several times a week or month. AND: We would not even start flying if they would offer business class flights for free.
What they completely ignore is the fact that some services are absolutely vital for a certain segment of customers. They can cut food in the lounges and the on the plane. They can even increase fares. But there are customers out there who value every minute and distance to other people. Not having the FCT in FRA means a loss of 1-2 hours per flight, e.g. for parking the car, for not being able to work whilst waiting for boarding, and it means getting in touch with many other people. Instead of boarding last from the limousine you have to stand in the jet bridge.
The same applies for HONs connecting in FRA, MUC, ZRH and VIE. Without the ground services, which offer privacy, distance and the opportunity to work, the flight becomes impossible to do.
I know that many people dont understand this. However, it is difficult for me to understand how Lufthansa can ignore it, as they have previously been perfectly aware of the customer needs and they have fulfilled them great.
Now they do completely ignore them and they do not seem to take any effort in understanding them. With whomever you talk at Lufthansa, they are obviously completey unaware that it is not the special offer pricing, not the food, or whatever. It is the privacy, social distancing and time management utility they need to offer in order to make several high worth customers flying again.
As long as they ignore it, they will not see these customers again. It is sad to see that Lufthansa has the capability and the ressources to offer these products, but they completely dont care.
I would have no issue transfering in ZRH as long as LH does not offer F product. I wont take LH C class due to the lack of privacy and distance. So I easily connect in ZRH. However, it would require F ground services in FRA and ZRH.
The people in charge seem to have no clue what the customers want. They are focussed on the regular holiday guests or business travellers which might fly anything the company books.
Now would be the perfect time to get the HONs back on board and to keep them even if the situation worsens again. If they lose these customers now, they might be gone - and their trust into Lufthansa and HON promises as well - for a long time to come.
Keeping lots of cash with LH for cancelled flights? No problem.
Receving no services and no communication at all? Sorry, no.
Aug 6, 2020, 11:00 pm
#190
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: MIA
Programs: LH HON, AA PLT, DL PM
Posts: 21
It is absolutely the same for me.
Unfortunately, LH seems to think that we need to fly anyway and we are in need of Lufthansa. And they seem to think that we are all willing to take all their decisions of cost cutting.
What they do not understand is the fact that many of the HON flyers actually do not need Lufthansa, especially for shorter flights. There are many HONs out there who can simply afford private jet or limousine services.
Lufthansa seems to believe that they may reduce fares a little bit and we fly again.
They have been in a very difficult situation. However, they had a lot of time to plan for the upcoming months. They however simply did nothing. They never asked the HONs what they actually require in order to start flying again.
Fact is that me and several of my friends went to zero flights with Lufthansa, after having flown them several times a week or month. AND: We would not even start flying if they would offer business class flights for free.
What they completely ignore is the fact that some services are absolutely vital for a certain segment of customers. They can cut food in the lounges and the on the plane. They can even increase fares. But there are customers out there who value every minute and distance to other people. Not having the FCT in FRA means a loss of 1-2 hours per flight, e.g. for parking the car, for not being able to work whilst waiting for boarding, and it means getting in touch with many other people. Instead of boarding last from the limousine you have to stand in the jet bridge.
The same applies for HONs connecting in FRA, MUC, ZRH and VIE. Without the ground services, which offer privacy, distance and the opportunity to work, the flight becomes impossible to do.
I know that many people dont understand this. However, it is difficult for me to understand how Lufthansa can ignore it, as they have previously been perfectly aware of the customer needs and they have fulfilled them great.
Now they do completely ignore them and they do not seem to take any effort in understanding them. With whomever you talk at Lufthansa, they are obviously completey unaware that it is not the special offer pricing, not the food, or whatever. It is the privacy, social distancing and time management utility they need to offer in order to make several high worth customers flying again.
As long as they ignore it, they will not see these customers again. It is sad to see that Lufthansa has the capability and the ressources to offer these products, but they completely dont care.
I would have no issue transfering in ZRH as long as LH does not offer F product. I wont take LH C class due to the lack of privacy and distance. So I easily connect in ZRH. However, it would require F ground services in FRA and ZRH.
The people in charge seem to have no clue what the customers want. They are focussed on the regular holiday guests or business travellers which might fly anything the company books.
Now would be the perfect time to get the HONs back on board and to keep them even if the situation worsens again. If they lose these customers now, they might be gone - and their trust into Lufthansa and HON promises as well - for a long time to come.
Keeping lots of cash with LH for cancelled flights? No problem.
Receving no services and no communication at all? Sorry, no.
Unfortunately, LH seems to think that we need to fly anyway and we are in need of Lufthansa. And they seem to think that we are all willing to take all their decisions of cost cutting.
What they do not understand is the fact that many of the HON flyers actually do not need Lufthansa, especially for shorter flights. There are many HONs out there who can simply afford private jet or limousine services.
Lufthansa seems to believe that they may reduce fares a little bit and we fly again.
They have been in a very difficult situation. However, they had a lot of time to plan for the upcoming months. They however simply did nothing. They never asked the HONs what they actually require in order to start flying again.
Fact is that me and several of my friends went to zero flights with Lufthansa, after having flown them several times a week or month. AND: We would not even start flying if they would offer business class flights for free.
What they completely ignore is the fact that some services are absolutely vital for a certain segment of customers. They can cut food in the lounges and the on the plane. They can even increase fares. But there are customers out there who value every minute and distance to other people. Not having the FCT in FRA means a loss of 1-2 hours per flight, e.g. for parking the car, for not being able to work whilst waiting for boarding, and it means getting in touch with many other people. Instead of boarding last from the limousine you have to stand in the jet bridge.
The same applies for HONs connecting in FRA, MUC, ZRH and VIE. Without the ground services, which offer privacy, distance and the opportunity to work, the flight becomes impossible to do.
I know that many people dont understand this. However, it is difficult for me to understand how Lufthansa can ignore it, as they have previously been perfectly aware of the customer needs and they have fulfilled them great.
Now they do completely ignore them and they do not seem to take any effort in understanding them. With whomever you talk at Lufthansa, they are obviously completey unaware that it is not the special offer pricing, not the food, or whatever. It is the privacy, social distancing and time management utility they need to offer in order to make several high worth customers flying again.
As long as they ignore it, they will not see these customers again. It is sad to see that Lufthansa has the capability and the ressources to offer these products, but they completely dont care.
I would have no issue transfering in ZRH as long as LH does not offer F product. I wont take LH C class due to the lack of privacy and distance. So I easily connect in ZRH. However, it would require F ground services in FRA and ZRH.
The people in charge seem to have no clue what the customers want. They are focussed on the regular holiday guests or business travellers which might fly anything the company books.
Now would be the perfect time to get the HONs back on board and to keep them even if the situation worsens again. If they lose these customers now, they might be gone - and their trust into Lufthansa and HON promises as well - for a long time to come.
Keeping lots of cash with LH for cancelled flights? No problem.
Receving no services and no communication at all? Sorry, no.
Aug 7, 2020, 12:56 am
#191
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: London | Sydney
Programs: LH HON, QF CL, SQ TPPS, AF Plat, VS Gold, VA Plat, EK Gold, HH Diamond, WoH Globalist, Marriott Plat
Posts: 1,528
If you are connecting short haul in Europe as HON, I advise flying LX at the moment. Their Core Customer Care team is staffed by experienced and empowered agents who actually want to help you, and their service on board is better than ever right now.
Also, with no assistance or non-Schengen F facilities, I’d avoid FRA at all costs.
Also, with no assistance or non-Schengen F facilities, I’d avoid FRA at all costs.
Aug 7, 2020, 1:12 am
#192
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 471
For limos, there are the time and travel congestion issues (unlikely to get better as the share of public infrastructure investment going to the road network is falling). And we've already got tighter regulation in effect than, say, in the US.
For private jets, tight European airspace is a major constraint. I'd argue private-jet travel growth is constrained more tightly in Europe than in other parts of the world as the skies are so congested already. It's also well-known European ATC is resource-constrained for years to come.
Without digging up the article, I've recently read a piece in the NYT (US edition) about well-off Americans booking private jets for leisure travel. If such a thing became a trend in Europe, I'd expect a resolute public-policy response in light of majority views on climate change. You may not find private-jet travel has associated with it too dear a price right now, but that price isn't set in stone.
Aug 10, 2020, 8:12 am
#193
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2019
Programs: Star Aliance Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 15
Since May, has anyone heard anything from Lufthansa/M&M regarding changes to their policy of non-extension of us suckers with 2022 expiration? I'm still canceling flights left and right to the US, and with the flight volume worldwide at an estimated 2005 levels and US COVID levels so high, I'm doubtful for a renewal next year either...
Aug 10, 2020, 9:00 am
#194
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Posts: 9,455
Since May, has anyone heard anything from Lufthansa/M&M regarding changes to their policy of non-extension of us suckers with 2022 expiration? I'm still canceling flights left and right to the US, and with the flight volume worldwide at an estimated 2005 levels and US COVID levels so high, I'm doubtful for a renewal next year either...
For once I don't really blame LH not do to anything.
The smart thing, obviously, would be some kind of statement "all your status levels will be retained till COVID-19 is fully over + 1 year at the very least", or something like that, which would attract people to pick LH for the (few) flights they may have in the meantime. But then, I'm happy if LH is just industry average with their frequent flyer program, and not plain last..
Aug 10, 2020, 10:37 am
#195
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: MIA
Programs: LH HON, AA PLT, DL PM
Posts: 21
Since May, has anyone heard anything from Lufthansa/M&M regarding changes to their policy of non-extension of us suckers with 2022 expiration? I'm still canceling flights left and right to the US, and with the flight volume worldwide at an estimated 2005 levels and US COVID levels so high, I'm doubtful for a renewal next year either...