Comatose.Captain

Removal of F constitutes a big loss only if you got a non-competitive J product *ducks*

FlyerLX

Yes I agree... But 77X is (as we are told) coming with the all-new C... Throne seat and all making it "better" than current F in at least one row... And despite what was said initially I am sure they will find a way to upgrade the quality of C on other l/h a/c (if there are any!!)

And if the FCT ever re-opens, I guess it's no big hassle to re-brand it HON Terminal and just re-name the ducks "HON Ducks" or perhaps "Premium Ducks"...

nufnuf77

I cant imagine LH would remove F altogether. Some routes are so premium heavy and have F demand (I know there are people on some routes quite a few who rather fly other airline then fly J).

Nick Art

I don't think LH will give up on F. It just happened to be that the most inefficient aircraft had F on them, which is why we see such a reduction now.

But it'll return to more planes eventually. My guess would be the A350s or maybe on some A330 in the short time.

I'm still critical on LHs new Business Class and can't really imagine it being better than the current LX Thompson seat, but only time will tell. I'd still would have much rather seen
the Thompson Vantage XL (See SK) being introduced with LH on the A359s, with the 4 F seat add on configuration (See MH). Frankly I think for the 2023 A350s this might still be the best way to go.

I'm still hoping LX will do their own (better) thing J seat wise...

ISTFlyer

If we come back to the BA F vs LH F discussion earlier in this thread, I could tell that the First Wing ( direct lounge access ) is a nice but overrated benefit and does not have anything special compared to what some airlines are offering for their Business Class passengers at their hubs. For the current situation, the Galleries First and the Concorde Terrace might be superior to the LH SEN Lounges ( where LH F pax are directed at the moment ) but if we look at the pre-COVID situation, the Lufthansa FCT and the FCL's are much superior compared to the CCR in LHR.

chris63

This, they won’t get me in their crappy J product so if they don’t offer F it’s another airline, simples

chris63

For me LH F is better than BA F but BA F is a lot better than J on any airline & I do like the CCR , you can pre book a Cabana, excellent Champagne & since I’m English the food is fine, CCR is on par with MUC FCL in what it offers. Pre Covid of course.

Dave_C

I think we've been to a different CCR and FCL in MUC! The FCL was head and shoulders above anything BA has to offer (and I say this as an ex GGL/CCR holder)!

FlyerLX

I agree totally. The BA "First Wing" at LHR T5 must be the biggest con in airline history... It's a fake metal wall, some check-in desks behind it, a door, a security point, a corridor, then a walk through the back of the Gold lounge tripping over a dozen bits of other pax' hand luggage to get to CCR. You can access CCR more quickly by going through the regular security point and using the door on your right. If I flew BA (which I try my very hardest not to), I'd wonder what all the fuss is about.

I agree with this too. Reading a lot of threads, I am struck by how many people regard LH and/or LX F as way better than BA's so-called F; by how many people even find many airlines' C/J a good bit better than BA's so-called F; by how many say BA's so-called F is a business class product at best; and by how few people say they really prefer BA to LH/LX when booking an F ticket.

sophialite

The "problem" is that BA has far many more F destinations and better international connectivity at LHR than ZRH and MUC. It's also better than FRA, but not sure if the gulf is that great between the two.

It's a conundrum I frequently face--whether to fly BA direct or do the stopover, especially when the stopover in F is many multiples more expensive. I'm sitting on two F tickets currently to the US... the BA one cost 1900GBP and the AF one was 5000 GBP... I feel like I'm approaching stupidity here.

My extended family, who flew BA F pretty much 12-20 times a year really values direct flights... especially when taking the infants.

I hugely value product and service, but my patience is really wearing thin during Covid times. With ground services and F lounges paused in all LH/LX hubs, I'm paying a few K extra for a marginally better seat, marginally better food in flight, and the inconvenience/risk of a stopover. At this point, as a London resident, the only reason I'd choose LH/LX is to maintain HON status. But is the ability to use the FCT during a layover between London and Naples really that valuable compared to just flying direct with BA...? eh.

chris63

I doubt it, I think there is only 1 at LHR

I have frequented MUC FCL far more often but I always had a nice time in CCR & on BA F, I fully understand reading the BA forum it’s seems I was lucky but I’m only recounting my experiences

Dave_C

Er, JFK! It was always a much better lounge than LHR (except in the T4 days). There was clearly a lot more revenue going through the JFK lounge than the LHR lounge of an evening. I also miss the JFK Special Services team who were so proactive and could just sort anything. Best thing was dinner there, before getting the BA4 back for an extra 30 minutes sleep over the Heathrow services. Plus don't forget the Concorde dining at select US outstations - IAD is very good.

But still, FCL MUC I thought was significantly better overall.

oliver2002

BA & LX have F because they have a hub captive audience in GVA/ZRH/LHR that wants to fly F direct and will pay for it. The appetite for F ex FRA & MUC has reduced in the past years. The C suite of firms doesn't entirely fill the F cabin on a regular basis, you need generous travel policies for that (eg banking/pharma/govt etc)

Comatose.Captain

BA is massively scaling down F capacity. They used to have 14 F seats per aircraft. That's going down to 0 in some aircraft (e.g., the B787-8) and 8 in others (e.g., the B787-10). No need to delve into the details of the LH situation. Even before covid-19 struck, they cut down F capacity by ~50% over the course of a few years. Covid-19 now leads to further cuts.

I guess you may be right about LX. We can't be sure though. The A340-300 will be replaced next (LX is supposed to get either B787-9 or A350-900 aircraft) and it's doubtful in my mind all will be equipped with an F. It seems a strategic objective for LH group is more uniformity and flexibility in their fleet. Again, I am not sure but I would put at least a question mark over LX getting, say, a B787-9 that is so strongly differentiated from LH's B787-9 that it features an F cabin.

sophialite

The A343 might be up for replacement, but I think that would take a long time. LHG uses their planes for a while (the last 744s are only just being retired). And LX just refurbished their A343s. That's a significant investment for a plane that you were going to put out to pasture in the near or even medium term.