FlyerLX

I am well aware of that. But did anyone from LH (Board or otherwise) announce it publicly ?

Nick Art

LH has definitely not decided that. LH hasn't decided anything regarding F. People think LH has a very specific fleet and cabin plan for the future, but they actually don't. Due to Covid everything is under review anyway atm. I can assure you of that.

Afaik it was decided at some point, but due to the current situation that's up in the air obviously. Under review are btw, all current and future seat maps as well (if there is a significant shift from J to Y etc. existing seat maps might even be changed).

^^^

No. All of this information is of course officially unconfirmed. Unofficially however...

NYC1

We may agree, disagree, speculate etc. about the future of F with LH but in my experience these statements are not accurate or fair. I have found LH service on the ground and in the air to be excellent when traveling in F or in C when connecting to/from F. Super professional and friendly, and always looking to help in a non obtrusive manner. I hope that LH keeps a strong F offering.

flyertalker28120

I would be surprised if anything regarding F that was decided pre-covid isn't under close scrutiny post-covid.

Suppose covid is there to stay, as immunity is only temporary and vaccines only provide partial protection for a year or so, similar to a flu shot. In such a scenario, I'd much prefer a good business seat with a door over LH F or LX F. Have people here flown the QSuite, the BA Club Suite, NH The Room C, or DL's Delta One Suite (the Delta One version with Vantage XL seat and door)?

Even LH's new C seat--shall it ever see the light of day--will feature a door some sort of encapsulation. IMO, it will be a compelling alternative to LH F unless LH introduces a new F cabin.

FlyerLX

Yes I agree... if they do introduce the advertised new C seat to 779, and then across any other long haul aircraft they still have by that time, it’s hard to see how to add an F cabin even of 4 to be “better” than that...

As I said, my guess is that LH will stop at C- or perhaps (unlikely but possible) look at some kind of differentiated service with a movable curtain...

oliver2002

The business plus planned for the B779 in the first two rows was supposed to offer the option to encapsule yourself like shown in the Vantagefirst page: https://www.thompsonaero.com/seating.../vantagefirst/

FlyerLX

Yes we may see this... If I understand right it's basically the same seat as business but with a wall around it and maybe a bit more legroom... This seems to make sense, because if you want to operate the flight with no F, or if the F load is 0, you can simply use the whole front part of the aircraft as business and a few pax in the first row(s) are a bit lucky... That way you have maximum flexibility.

SebFra

Isn't it totally crap? Whilst other airlines offer the privacy also for Business Class, Lufthansa is supposed to simply not to do it and offer a simple wall as only differentiation? So no seperate galley, no seperate toilet rooms, no wall to Business Class?
If they would do something good, they would build the wall around each seat in the whole Business Class and offer a better product there.... I can't believe this is supposed to be real. That has nothing to do with First Class!?
How much seats do they miss if they would have a real F with 8 seats? Wouldnt it be much better to have real F class, and if Business is overbooked, simply do some upgrades?

FlyerLX

It's certainly nothing like F on LX...

I say again that I think LH have more or less given up on the whole idea of F... It's true that it remained profitable on some routes but on many it never was. I believe they just cannot get away from looking at the few extra seats they could have, the staff and catering costs they could save, etc... If FCT re-opens long term, it could easily be renamed HON Terminal.

I still think we may end up seeing a movable curtain between Business and some form of Business Plus / Premium Business / Executive First / call it what you like (maybe even just First Class)... A curtain or some kind of movable divider gives them flexibility.... And it mirrors what pax find on shorthaul flights...

Although if you have a wall around the seats in the front row(s), maybe you don't need a curtain...

flyertalker28120

If you cut down on F, this may also reduce the number of HON in the medium/long term. I know quite a few HON IRL. And yeah, they fly a lot. Some really a ton more than me. But I also get the impression many of them fly LH and LX F a decent amount. If you give HON less opportunities to fly F (which happens automatically if you cut down F capacity), for a subset of them it will become impractical to requalify for HON.

I think the big picture is that F is not as profitable as C, at least not directly. There's the idea that besides the money you get from F flyers, having an F may be beneficial due to what it does to the airline's reputation and such. But reputational benefits are hard to quantify...

Nevertheless, I'm fully admitting to engaging in armchair CEO discussion here. But this week should bring new information about which parts of the fleet are being retired. That should help us all to make better-educated guesses about the future of F and the FCT/FCLs.

Raul_R

I do fly LH F already several years wherever possible. And I do like the product. Actually I like it more than LX F product.
As far I know, LH will keep F also for imago. It may not be directly profitable product but it is profitable in the Big Picture.
Actually I do not think, there is any 5* airline (no matter what some may think of LH accordance to 5*) wihtout F.
F is ideologically best product.
You may have Premium Business class, you may have better cabin for Businass class.
But F is not just a cabin. Actualy for me the cabin is even not the 50% importance. F is mostly about the service! In the air and on the ground.
And that is, where LH is superior by my experience. Far over EK, whos F I also used to fly I lot. And by my personal opinion better than LX. Of course some may disagree and different customers have different preferences.
I am quite sure, F will stay in LH protfolio for long time. As well will stay the ground services for F and HON.
And currently big part of the ground services are in FRA connected to FCT, what will also keep FCT "alive".
Yes, maybe they will close some of F lounges. Logical should be then FCL A as from A is easiest to take short walk to FCT. I used almost every time also ask drivers who picked me up from any flight to drop me "nearest exit to FCT". As I did prefer walk to FCT. OK, few times, when it was veeery bad weather I did stay in terminal.

FlyerLX

Hmm... Although the M&M status structure from 2022 (if it goes ahead) will probably mean more HONS than before because status will be easier and cheaper overall to achieve. Flying Y will be status-earning again, Flying C will be very advantageous to status in some cases, whereas flying F won't give anything like the same boost to status that it did before. Maybe because LH plan for it to be nearly gone by then...??

Sorry... Are these HONs who live in Ireland??


Personally I think that will only hold true if they refuse to fly anything other than F... If they fly C a lot they may actually find it easier to requalify.

... And this may be a big headache for LH (and I am also only an armchair CEO on a Sunday!!) if they are trying to ditch F. It's easy not to introduce F if you don't have it... It's much harder to say "We used to have F, folks, but from today: Just stick your feet in the hole, bang your elbows on the side, fiddle with the broken light, swallow your defrosted goose, lie rigid in the dentist's chair, and smash your toe in the tiny WC.... Welcome to LH C Class!!"

flyertalker28120

IRL = In real life. That is, HON I have actually met in person as opposed to on the interwebz.

FlyerLX

Ha!! Thank you - of course...

FlyerLX

... Well of course we will see. But I still don’t see where they will put F if they keep it- right now it seems like only 748 because 380 and 346 are in storage. And it wouldn’t surprise me if even 748 bites the dust- 4 engines...

LH could go for F on 779 after all, on 787 or on the later batch of 359. But does anyone think they will?