8420PR

Lufthansa did have an aggressive expansion plan for Berlin in 2011 and 2012, with a short haul hub (30 new destinations) in operation along with long haul plans for 2013/2014. It was planned to start in June 2012 with the opening of the new airport, but had to be scaled back to fit capacity at Tegel (and in my experience offered a poor connecting experience compared to MUC and FRA). Ultimately it was folded into eurowings/germanwings.

Lufthansa unveils aggressive expansion plan for Berlin | Business| Economy and finance news from a German perspective | DW | 11.11.2011

https://www.lufthansa.com/mediapool/...ia_1048004.pdf

1flyer

Frankfurt is much more centrally located in both Germany and Europe than Berlin. It is closer to just about every economically powerful major European city than Berlin (Munich, Cologne/Dusseldorf, Basel, Stuttgart, Amsterdam, Brussels, Paris, London, Zurich, Milan, ..., you name it).

It has a long history as a center of commerce and trade. Critical freeways (A3 and A5) meet here. It is also the biggest hub and centerpiece of Germany's high-speed train network.

Even if you look at more narrowly defined metro areas, Frankfurt Rhine-Main is more relevant from a business perspective than Berlin-Brandenburg. Berlin-Brandenburg may be slightly bigger population-wise (roughly 6 m people vs. Rhine-Main's 5.5 m), but it has a waaaayy lower GDP.

RolfD

the security line at the gate is only for the flight you will be taken at terminal A, Terminal B, C, D. the security lines are short less than 20 minutes during rush hour

frogster

Everybody is talking about why Berlin didn’t become a hub – which I think can be explained with the historic development.

But why FRA and MUC?
FRA covers huge portions of the German economic might and it’s population and is situated at the crossroads of several important transportation routes (highways, trains – even shipping) so it makes sense that a hub would develop there.
Historically MUC makes only limited sense to my untrained eye. Back when the foundations were laid, Bavaria was no economic powerhouse. Furthermore the surrounding area quickly hits upon borders – in the north the East Germany, in the south Austria and in the east Czechoslovakia.

DUS is too close to FRA for any hub to develop there – but why did nothing develop in the north?
Is it possibly because both FRA and MUC were in the American zone of occupation?

RolfD

you forgot one important item in your comment. the power and money distribution in Germany is not in Frankfurt or Munich, It is in Berlin. we are talking about heavy industry zones with huge population the ideal hub for lufthansa will be Dusseldorf

worldclubber

I am with you on this one and would rather go to the airport a bit earlier and have breakfast there, answer some messages from the lounge etc. instead of cutting it (too) close and missing my flight. Personal preferences differ, however.

1flyer

Germany is not some planned economy where politicians and their cronies sit in the capital. Yes, the public's share of the economy is, unfortunately, quite large, but not nearly as large as, say, in France. It still matters a lot where the private sector spends its money. And the private sector doesn't spend it in the poor Berlin-Brandenburg metro region.

We are living in a post-industrial society. Industrial production is not the largest part of Germany's economy (services are). And even if they were, you gotta acknowledge that many of the industrial powerhouses (Daimler, BMW, Infineon, etc.) sit in Southern Germany. And Rhein-Main and Southern Germany are strongest in the large services sector.

I think Frankfurt has an locational advantage not just over Berlin but also over Dusseldorf. I think if you wanted to look at it from a developmental perspective, the interesting question is who benefits most from the increasing economic importance of Eastern Europe (certainly not Dusseldorf, but probably also not Frankfurt).

Kacee

While there are other, socio-economic explanations, this is fundamental. The present infrastructure won't support a real hub.

sw1x

RolfD

you can not compare the economy power of Germany to any other country in Europe. Most of the economical decisions that affect Europe are made in Berlin ( seat of the German government). Germany t is the biggest contributor to the EU Budget.

the Ruhrgebiet, Dusseldorf and Cologne (NRW Most populous state in Germany) the only megapolis in germany is home to the biggest corporations in Germany e.g Thyssenkrupp, Hochtief, Bayer, E.on. Metro group. Ford, Opel, Henkel. etc....

based on your float argument. Neither Frankfurt nor München should be Hub's for any airline.

RolfD

I usually takes me 5 minutes to clear security in Terminal A, B, C and D. so not sure why you need to wait that long to get in to the waiting area

1flyer

Most of the economic decisions are made by European citizens like you and me, many by citizens of non-European countries. Some are made by governments. But certainly not most. And lastly, only a fraction of the economic decisions are made in Berlin. Ever head of the Bundeskartellamt (Bonn), the Bundesagentur fuer Arbeit (Nuremberg), the ECB (Frankfurt), the Bavarian Landesamt (Munich), the European Commission (Brussels/Luxemburg), the governments of other EU member states (Amsterdam, Paris, ...), to name a few?

Idk why I even discuss your ridiculous comment.

RolfD

and which government is the pay master of Europe? . and all those offices that you mention are control but the Federal government of Germany and Bayern's parliament is of the 16 state parliaments of Germany which are represented in Berlin (again Berlin) by the Bundesrat ( need to know what is the Bundesrat?).

sw1x

chris63