Tyrolean

This is just ridiculous.

People move to TK and EK because they have better products for a better price. Instead of improving or lowering the prices, they want to fool the customer. They can't do anything with EK, but for TK this is just a form of retaliation!


If you fly TK, you should change to M&S.
I wonder if LH should stay in the *A?

ottone

This is precisely what I was going to do anyway. Having requalified for SEN till 02/2017 (mostly with TK flights) next year I will go for gold on M&S (which is far easier to achieve) after which it will be bye-bye LH and bye-bye M&M.

more4less

Apparently they are even offering status match to M&M elites.

LH4116

And do any of these newly graduated youngsters have any understanding or experience in the concept of airline loyalty programs? Anyone who has majored in marketing or business administration should know at least a little bit about the value of customer loyalty. Or are LH only hiring accountants to work their marketing department?

Essentially what they're trying to create now is false loyalty, which could best be likened to chasing your customers with a blow torch (or taser gun for that matter) into a corner, with no chance to escape.

cas_de

I guess the question in this case is: what costs less, losing loyal customers vs. cost reductions through the "enhancement" of benefits.

In any case I am worried that this trend will eventually lead to *A falling apart. All the marketing blah blah around seamless travel and benefits across all member airlines is just a myth anyway.

N1003U

Exampe: On founding SkyTeam member DL, one now earns zero status miles on founding ST member KE, regardless of fare class, even full-fare. Some alliances seem to have seen better days...I think similar things are coming to *A as members step on each other's toes...

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...orean-air.html

N1003U

Well said. I feel another question for Huber next week coming on...

cas_de

I would like to throw something in the ring for discussion:

It seems like one of the core issues is that people don't put their miles into M&M, because of the low earning levels in many fare buckets and the high threshold for *G (relative to other *A carrier's thresholds). Hence lots of people are putting their miles into TK, A3, etc.

In the old days (2002/3) I remember that NW and KL had their FFPs aligned. I tried to move my account address from the US to Germany and I got a reply that my account (and the miles) will be transfered to KL's (then) Flying Dutchman program.

Do you folks think that this could start to address some of the issues around alliances (see above, plus UA's PQD factor, etc.)?

LH4116

I think the best thing would simply be to introduce an alliance wide requirement that any elite member should earn at least 50% of his/her status miles on the airline that issues the *Gold card. Why complicate matters by jeopardizing the core principles of an alliance…

outgoing

I mean you can compete on price or on quality but it is hard to do it on both. I am willing to pay more for batter service and benefits but what LH is doing is raising prices and lowering quality. This does not make any sense, like really any! I guess the only thing that gives them edge is good access to small places (like Krakow airport from time to time in my case for example) plus the fact that it is a pin to fly through London. Since I mostly fly to WAW or ARN I seriously think about switching to AA/BA. Had I known like May-ish what kind of crap they are gonna serve us I would transfer all my flights to OW. They caught me being close to SEN threshold so I am gonna go for it for two years and fly the cheapest cheapo for the next two years It is just a shame that I will have to lose so many award miles by flying with them. Or I might just choose the cheapest way if AA or BA offers fast track or matching.

LH4116

If you fly a lot to ARN, maybe you should consider SAS EuroBonus. They operate daily into ARN from ORD, and they also offer flights to KRK from CPH. I'd say 3 or 4 trips in Economy across the pond and you'll reach Gold there, or even faster if your OptionTown upgrades clear.

N1003U

I am noticing in the USA carriers are steadily introducing spend and/or home-airline segment requirements to encourage the kind of behavior you describe.

You are describing the rational reaction of maximizing consumers to a dynamic marketplace, which is a notoriously difficult thing to analyze. Since most of the marketing folks I know passed on the opportunity to develop meaningful quantitative skills, it is not a surprise to me that such complex joint-company promotions have landed in the state they are today in...@:-)

outgoing

Yeah, but Eurobonus is so Scandinavian if you know what I mean With all seriousness though I am considering US carriers or BA mainly because of tier bonuses. I mean when you see all those trip reports in first on BA or CX you are just jealous. I mean if I fly 10 times TATL I get like 200K miles yearly which gives me 2 First class trips to Europe with very little to pay in taxes. My quarter Mil with LH gives me on flight if I can afford paying like 1500 USD in taxes SAS as I can see have high values of mile redemption but at least they do not impose the ridiculous taxes, or do they as it says from?

Most of the folks graduating schools recently passed on this opportunity. I still remember that I had differential equations in school (and I am not that old). Nowadays kids graduating high school do not know what a derivative is

kai.lileboo

The P class on LX and LH earns you 150% on TK. For intra european flights that is really not such a big deal as you earn 1250 for P, C, D, Z, J instead of 800 in lower eco, but if you fly LAX or HKG then it is still a good deal, you pay P and get 50% more miles on TK

GBM.flights

This is quite a confusing statement.
I'll go out on a limb and say this is a positive one and we will get 25% of award miles in addition to the status miles. ( an executive bonus but as award miles)

You can call me lunatic now ( the "you earn as status miles" part defies logic. When? Today? Still as of Jan?, But then it should be you would. I'll go get an aspirine)