SeeBuyFly

On the consolidated thread in the UA forum (link in my previous post), it is reported that SWU hassles are occurring even outside the US.

Your LH-forum moderator, Oliver2002, reports that in MUC they decided the SWU was bartered (although not sold) and therefore void. How they knew this is not clear from his post; nor is it clear whether goats or cigars or wheels of cheese were thought to have been given in exchange. Apparently no proof is needed to make such a charge.

How is it that LH, generally thought to be a model of rule-following efficiency, lets its staff be unsupervised and unguided in such things? And what happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

Unterwegs

Hi Alison,

it seems that more and more airlines (Star and others) allow search and booking (award and revenue) for partner airlines. Are there any plans to allow this (and booking of stopovers, 3 region awards etc) on the website?

Why is it not possible to buy one ticket and take a partner with me on an award ticket? I occasionally take my wife with me on a business trip. My client pays for my ticket in F. Since i cannot take my wife as a companion I usually just use miles for my ticket also because the total cost is much less.
If i could take my wife with me on a companion award for a paid ticket LH would sell a F ticket.

It also would be nice to use my evouchers for others. Since I am in the fortunate situation that my clients pay for F i cannot use them on business trips. And since potential travel companions are not in the same reservation I cannot use them in that situation.

LHconnect

To finally lay this issue to rest we have receive written confirmation from United regarding SWU sponsorship. On UA domestically the member has to sign a form validating his/her consent of the SWU to a sponsored person. This document/ process does not exist for international travel on UA.

As there is no established UA sponsorship process for intercontinental routes LH is not obliged to accept sponsored or third party SWU's on flights operated by LH.

I hops this addresses any issues surrounding the sponsorship or transferability of the SWU's

Regards
Alison

Rambuster

You've got to be kidding!?

WineCountryUA

Believe you misunderstand the UA process

SWUs are typically used for international travel (but are valid for domestic travel)
An UA 1K member can sponsor the use of a SWU for another traveller.
For travel on UA operatored flights the easiest approach is to do this electronic online. If unable to do online, it can be done at an airport (prior to travel). You do not need to be traveling with the sponsoree in either case. UA does not use paper SWUs for UA operated flights.

For LH operated flights, paper SWUs are required and the electronic sponsorship is not an option.

The bottomline question has not been answered. How does one sponsor another traveller to use paper UA SWUs on LH operated flights when one is not traveling with the sponsoree?? Are you saying the practice of many years will no longer be honored?

SeeBuyFly

It does sound like a joke, doesn't it?

(a) It's claimed to be an "official statement from UA", but it's not actually posted by UA, and the post shows unfamiliarity with UA procedures.

(b) "To finally lay this issue to rest" they declare that they are "not obliged to accept" the SWU, but that's a vague statement (they could accept it or not, according to how they feel) and so this makes nothing clear and lays nothing to rest. It's not clear that there's any change from the current Wheel of Fortune situation.

(c) As pointed out in the previous post, there is no indication of how acceptable consent could be granted. The act of getting an SWU printed and giving it to the recipient would appear to most people to indicate consent, but apparently it does not as far as LH is concerned. LH is being explicitly unhelpful by not explaining what form of consent would be acceptable.

(d) If there's a substantive change (not yet clear), should UA and LH come out with a clear and public statement? Are policy changes going to be announced only on FT?

The colleague who gave me the SWUs called UA and they don't know anything about this. It could be another example of LH-USA making [stuff] up.

Rambuster

Can we present an affidavit at checkin that the SWU was gifted together with a notarised letter from the SWU sponsor ?

Not a nice move by LH to reverse the burdon of proof. Now it's guilty until proven innocent.

rcs85551

Dear Alison,


the terms and conditions of a "United Systemwide Upgrade For Use On Lufthansa" are spelled out clearly on those printed certificates: the upgrade is transferable based on the terms & conditions.

Hence, there is an established sponsorship process as indicated on the upgrade certificate: that it is transferable, without any other requirements being listed.

Your wording "LH is not obliged to accept sponsored or third party SWU's on flights operated by LH" sounds like LH unilateraly decides not to honour any SWUs - in contrast to the terms and conditions printed on the certificate.

Hence, the real issue that needs to be addressed remains - why does LH decide not to honour those certificates according to the existing terms and conditions? Why is Lufthansa apparently unwilling to come up with a policy that sets forth some way for travellers who were legitimately gifted a SWU to use such upgrade certificates according to the written terms & conditions?

Kind Regards


rcs85551

sindjic

This addresses absolutely no current issues surrounding the sponsorship of the SWU's....I begin to wonder in real-life how many SWU's is LH honoring at all...

synd

+1

Allison,

could you please try to address this issue clearly?

thanks

Football Fan

This is completely unacceptable and if you think this "lays this issue to rest", you have absolutely no understanding of legal obligations or proper customer service.

Your statement is so absurd that it would be comical if it were not such an insult to us as LH's customers.

Mikana

For the second time in just a few months LH has made equipment changes on the PEK-FRA run. Now, I understand that such things happen. My problem is that on both occasions I was actually directly invited by LH to buy a ticket because it would mean using the A380 between Germany and China and so I did, adjusting my travel schedule in order to fly in much greater comfort than LH affords me with their senile 744 service. Both times, LH switched equipment, dropped out my seat, and couldn't even be bothered to email me about it, despite promoting their A380 service to PEK to me directly. And when I ask LH why, I get some gobbledy-gook about the engines, when in fact I happen to know the equipment change has nothing to do with tech and everything to do with failed negotiations with the PRC government which LH continues to conceal and thus misrepresent their services to PEK as a way of getting more sales. It's a cheap marketing strategy to promote and sell A380 services when the airline can't be sure of actually providing them. It's shoddy service to change what you've sold without notification or any attempt at communication.

flamboyant 1

I agree with that. LH should make the process clear and give ample notice as frequent flyers planning to upgrade with SWUs should get a clear and fair process and even if this upgrade instrument was abolished, one should at least be informed so that one can change to other upgrade instruments.

SanDiego1K

Let me add my voice to those who do not think this can be the accurate answer. I currently have a paper SWU in my possession. On the front, it says in bolded text:

Certificate is transferable but void if bartered or sold.

In addition, the United website says:

Valid Carrier: This upgrade certificate may be used only on United, United Express or Lufthansa flights (only on multi-cabin aircraft) and not on flights operated by other airlines. Upgrade requests for flights marketed by other airlines but operated by United are only permitted at the airport on the day of travel, subject to availability.

1a. Lufthansa Standby: This upgrade may be used on a standby basis, subject to availability, on the day of travel on any eligible Lufthansa flight in accordance with the terms and conditions of this certificate, except when booked in LH booking classes X, I, R, N, W, S and E. In addition L and T fares are also excluded for Intra-Europe flights. Please note: This upgrade requires a 14-day advanced notification to Mileage Plus in order to print and mail the certificate for presentation to Lufthansa on the day of departure. Please contact the MPI Service Center to have certificates printed.

The paper cert says it is transferable. I've done it in the past. The reason I have a printed SWU in my hands right now is in order to gift it to a friend for his yearend travels. At times, the UA agent has asked me for the PNR of the traveler; more often, I am not asked. Certainly UA has sent me printed SWUs as recently as last month, knowing that I am planning to give them to a friend.

If LH and UA are going to agree these are not transferable - and I truly hope that is not the case - verbiage both on the cert itself and on the website need to be altered before a new policy is imposed.

SeeBuyFly

UA is telling MP members that these certificates will be accepted...isn't that "bait and switch"? There is a deal made between LH and UA that can't be repealed one day on the whim of the LH North American branch office. If LH does not want to participate in this arrangement any more, or wants to change the terms, that should be decided by the LH central corporate office jointly with UA, and it should be done with proper notice and an official announcement.

Also, a BS excuse such as "no established UA sponsorship process" should not be given; at least be honest about why you want to do this. There is no way someone can get a paper certificate without the member to whom it was issued ordering the paper certificate from UA and consciously handing it over to someone else. If this were a real issue, LH could propose a verifiable way to establish sponsorship, but notice that it shows absolutely no interest in doing so; instead it is "Off with your head!"

In reality this is all about collective punishment. Some people do buy and sell SWUs in violation of the rules, but instead of accepting the burden of proof, LH has chosen a lazy (but arbitrary and dictatorial) method of enforcement, which is to punish all third-party users for the transgressions of a few.