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Originally Posted by psollitt
:confused: :confused:
The 'Lounge dragons' have always been nice and cheerful when I speak to them , maybe you should talk nicely to them , they are quite helpful :) Truthfully, one of my family members know one of these "lounge dragons" :p I don't really meet her much, but she is nice outside of the "lounge".. maybe if I get to know or see her more often, I can pull some info out of her..hehe ;) though now, don't do it yet since I hardly know her. :) |
Originally Posted by NickB
Sjoerd, this has to be the KL post of the year. This all makes such perfect sense now.
Some of us are so blinded by our prejudice and hate of KLM and our failure to keep appointments with our therapists to deal with that anger that we cannot see what must be obvious to objective and less screwed-up people: viz. that KL problem is that they have too many customers in the UK. How can we be so dumb as to not realise the huge potential of the Dutch market, as yet untapped by KL? How can we be so stupid as not to realise that the lowering of KL's fares on the Dutch market is a sign of vitality and profit potential on that market? Of course, if they want to lose UK customers, they could offer fewer services to the UK. The disadvantage of this, however, is that they would be lowering their operating costs. It is a far better strategy to keep the same number of flights with the same equipment but discourage some people from taking those flights. This way, you get the load factors down, keep your costs high while lowering your earnings, which is surely a very smart move if one takes into account the fact that the reason why KL needs to lose UK pax is that they make too much money. This way, it all makes sense. May I suggest, to build on this logic, that perhaps KL should consider switching its 9 daily flights from LHR to EXT as a first step in the summer schedule, to be soon followed in the winter schedule by a switch from MAN to BLK and from GLA to BRR? After the change in strategy, they have lowered their prices in the Netherlands, but not to rock-bottom levels but slightly above: say X + 15%. Suddenly many Dutch people are flying KLM because they may not be the cheapest ex-AMS, but KL have reasonable fares and direct flights. In addition they now have a seat AMS - UK airport that they can sell separately, so they'll earn another few €'s competing with Easyjet etc. Last three times I flew to LHR KL was the cheapest, whereas previously EZY or BD or HV were always a lot cheaper to LON. edited out personal comment about other flyertalker. ralfkrippner, KLM moderator |
Originally Posted by MAN Flyer
Another classic, that must be some spade your digging with there Sjoerd :D
It would be remiss of me not to kindly request a link to this revolutionary report that has 'allegedly' recommended this stuff. If you can remember where it was you read it of course ;) . Keep 'em coming.... |
Originally Posted by psollitt
:confused: :confused:
The 'Lounge dragons' have always been nice and cheerful when I speak to them , maybe you should talk nicely to them , they are quite helpful :) |
Sjoerd, I am sorry to see you so upset.
I think it was your initial tone that may have upset some people, your rather direct and perhaps a little undermining aproach towards my own comments did make my hackles rise a little as you can see from my own earlier reply. There are cultural differences which may make a comment seem perfectly reasonable in one place but not another. Perhaps if we were all a little gentler and more supportive in our comments it might help. I am sorry to see that you think the typical Englishman is arrogant; I can assure you that there are good and bad ones just as there are all over the world! Some of my own closest friends are Dutch as well as from the UK. The fact that we are all different makes life interesting! Best wishes and hope your day gets better. |
Originally Posted by simonsmith
Sjoerd, I am sorry to see you so upset.
I think it was your initial tone that may have upset some people, your rather direct and perhaps a little undermining aproach towards my own comments did make my hackles rise a little as you can see from my own earlier reply. There are cultural differences which may make a comment seem perfectly reasonable in one place but not another. Perhaps if we were all a little gentler and more supportive in our comments it might help. I am sorry to see that you think the typical Englishman is arrogant; I can assure you that there are good and bad ones just as there are all over the world! Some of my own closest friends are Dutch as well as from the UK. The fact that we are all different makes life interesting! Best wishes and hope your day gets better. Of course you are right that there are nice and not-so-nice people everywhere; it just seems that a lot of the not-so-nice ones are here on Flyertalk's KLM forum. I have done my best to explain KLM's strategy which is to get relatively more revenue from home market flyers (please remember that KL's "home market" recently increased by some 350%), at the expense of flyers from other markets. I NEVER ever suggested that KLM doesn't need any UK-based customers, they are and as far as I know will remain an important market for KLM. However, I do believe that the UK market is becoming relatively less important for KL. Some of the frequent complainers here don't seem to be able to understand that simple logic. I don't believe that the typical Englishman is arrogant and I apologize in case I misformulated in an earlier post. It's just a certain sub-class of English people, well-represented here on Flyertalk, that are typically arrogant. ;) Have a good Easter weekend. |
Folks, please keep to the flyertalk TOS and post only on topic. The next one posting personal comments on other members will face a timeout.
ralfkrippner, KLM moderator |
Ralf
Originally Posted by ralfkrippner
Folks, please keep to the flyertalk TOS and post only on topic. The next one posting personal comments on other members will face a timeout.
ralfkrippner, KLM moderator As regards the new scheme, lets wait and see. If it is bad, then we move on. It will be a shame to break up this forum. Perhaps FT could have a "People who used to fly KLM but got pissed off with the new FF programme and got better value elsewhere" Catchy title eh? Tom |
:) ^
I hope Randy will keep this forum for us "ex FD's" ;) |
New forum?
Ralf,
When will the new Forum for "Flying Blue" start? There we could talk / discuss / complain together with AF's frequent flyers about the new progamme. |
Well, I suppose that sometime in June, F+ and FD will move to the discontinued program category and Flying Blue will appear. I don't think there is a need to rush this before June.
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A proposal for a new joint board has just been made by AF mod dctorres and me to the 'big boss'. Let's see how it will be handled... ;)
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Originally Posted by ralfkrippner
A proposal for a new joint board has just been made by AF mod dctorres and me to the 'big boss'. Let's see how it will be handled... ;)
I sense a film title coming: 2 mods and a crap FF programme? Back to the future? The incredibles? |
Poo!
I've just been lured into signing up my partner onto KLM enticed by status miles on MH flights. He's flying over (NRT-KUL-LHR) on the 20th May and returning on the 3rd July. Add these 19,000 miles or so to 6,000+ miles for a recent NWA flight and we were hoping for quick status (and that all important 50% bonus.)
What does the change mean? That he'll only get status on the first part of the journey? Aw... pants! I'm still in two minds about whether to keep him on NWA or go with KLM (and whether the 6k worth of NWA miles should go on Alaska Air where they belonged) |
Originally Posted by Sjoerd
I have done my best to explain KLM's strategy which is to get relatively more revenue from home market flyers
KL may well want to increase the number of pax originating in the Netherlands on intra-European flights (note that they have not reduced longhaul fares in the Dutch market), but to attempt do so at the expense of transfer pax would be idiotic. In certain markets KL depends almost completely on transfer pax. Scandinavia is a good example. At least 20% of pax traveling to intercontinental destinations from Norway do so on KL. I sincerely doubt that KL would want to "re-balance their passengerload" in favor of very low yield Dutch pax at the expense of their market share in Norway. Back when KL still offered five flights a day to MMX, I was generally the only Dutch speaking passenger on board (and I don't even live in Holland), the FA's often expressed surprise at being addressed in Dutch. On the rare occasion that I checked luggage to AMS, my bag would be one of only two or three on the luggage belt, all the other pax were tranfers. I now commute from CPH, where the number of Dutch pax is slightly greater, but not all that much. I'm convinced that if it weren't for the LCCs, KL would happily have continued to milk the captive Dutch market for all that it is worth, and more. KL have lowered their prices ex-AMS in an attempt to compete with the increasing number of LCCs offering an increasing number of flights to more and more destinations, not to favor their home market at the expense of their market share elsewhere. If they attempted to fill all their NL-UK flights with Dutch pax traveling on E/N fares, load factors on intercontinental flights would drop noticeably! please remember that KL's "home market" recently increased by some 350% Some of the frequent complainers here don't seem to be able to understand that simple logic. johan (who gets along just fine with all the lounge agents) |
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