Well, once again as an F+ customer, I certainly do not regard 750 minimum miles as an enhancement. I just hope the new program does not take the lowest benefits. And I would certainly be upset if, in addition to this downgrading, in order to retain my current F+ Rouge benefits, I needed to go from 60K qualifying miles to 90K per year.

I actually wrote something similar (in a letter to KLM) when they brought in the current programme - except that I was referring to KL not being NW and Europe not being the USA.

Looks like I am going to stick with WP Asia then.....

This all seems to flatten the playing field a little within ST. What will happen to F+ members in Apac? They would be wise to switch to WP as soon as the merger is in.

Is there any news from MH and their entry into ST? Isnt this issue becoming urgent with ST? The alliance has a huge blind spot in Asia!

V Class earns only 25% ???

I fly more than five or six times a year from AMS to the US and usually ride on Q class tickets, does anyone know which fares are V class on KLM to the US?

I am assuming that these are deeply discounted fares?

If this is true then would it be true on partner airlines as well?

For example: Taking CO or Delta to the US instead of KL/AF?

Not a happy Gold member now.....

If what is written above is accurate, then it means MH will no longer be an option for awards either and means we're stuck on a KE flight or doing the Narita Shuffle to get anywhere.

I think this is a deal-killer.

O.K., again very interesting info.

Two things mentioned are really alarming IMO: another, this time intercont, fareclass with reduced mileage earned (V). And lower COS bonus for biz/first.

The combination of the two would be the last nail in the coffin for most of the remaining loyal customers of KL that I know personally. Why? Most travel biz interkont on business-trips to the US or asia. Now they get fewer miles for that, including fewer status miles. Then later with their family they travel in cheap fares for vacation. And again fewer miles. If you look araound a bit there are far more tempting programs around that would give those guys I mentioned maybe double the goodies that the new AF/Kl prog would give.

I can only hope that the people in charge think again or that those rumors are only rumors. Otherwise: thanks for the good times and good bye to AF/KL...

A bit of good news for me ^

I recently booked a flight to NBO in V Class - it's a Special Fare ("Far away lands, low prices").

:mad: So now I would only get 4148 (AMS-NBO) x 2 (return) x 25% (V Class) x 2 (100% Platinum) = 4148 FD Miles instead of 4148 x 2 x 2.25 (125% Platinum) = 18666?? That's a loss of 14518 FD Miles (or 78%)!! :mad:

KLM is indeed losing negotiating power
 

If the information about only 25 % earning on V class tickets above is correct, which I doubt, it is a clear indication that KLM has lost it completely and AF is ruling earlier than expected....

KLM has to understand that there business model always relied on offering cheap tickets and convenient connections, mostly to intercontinental destinations and that in the last 10 years the Flying Dutchman programm was a great additional tool to use.

If they really think they can get away with it , they are more stupid than expected and will face consequences sooner than expected...

Once again, so far no info is really confirmed, so speculation is always welcome, but not very accurate...

In my discussions I have been told that KLM FD is very worried about the affect all this is going to have on its customer base. 33% of FDs are from the UK 50% Netherlands. They are aware that many UK FDs use KLM because of the program and so put up with a non direct flight. They have told me that they are very much fighting on this basis which indeed leads me to believe that they are being forced to do things they would rather not.

If you think that they are being forced to do things they would rather not... how would that explain those E/N European fares - which seem to be something KLM brought in of their own accord?

Somebody in marketing at AF headquarters has to be clever enough to compare this new program against those of the main competitors.

As Threy stated, with the non NL- and non F- customer base they have today, one should not try to play games - it could end in a desaster.

Why in the world should I as a german- or UK- or Scandinavia based frequent flyer choose the slightly sub par products of KL or AF compared to the quite good products of my home carriers (like BA, BD, VS, LH, OS, SK), especially in biz class, do one more connecting flight, if not even the FF program rewards my loyality any more?

Maybe AF/KL decided to compete only on the price basis - which would be an even worse decission then.

I can only hope that the statements made here will remain rumors only. And at least partly it has to be so - because nobody could be that stupid...

Are the other ST airlines any better for European residents? Would it make sense to stage a mass defection to AZ or OK?

The UK Status Match that *A did last year is looking like a smarter move all the time.

I wonder how many Plats would consider leaving and giving up the Lifetime Plat offer from FD? That is of course, if this offer will still stand!

I am in the process of opening a new office in Mexico anyway. I have to look at that market for the next couple of years. Maybe both WP and FD (shhhhh)

Tom

P.S Mike, got your message, overseas now, hope Aruba was nice.

The mistake that most of you are making is to believe that your flying behaviour is typical for the average KLM-flyer.

Undoubtedly there will be *some* people who will change their flights away from KLM as a result of these -still unconfirmed- changes in the FD program. But I suspect it will be very *few* people. Why?

1) Almost all other airlines have frequent flyer programs that are worse than KLM's, even after the changes of this thread have been made. I am a member of LH and CX programs, both of which are significantly worse in terms of mileage accumulation and award redemption than KL. Major airlines such as BA and SQ also have lots of non miles earning or few miles earning booking classes.

2) The majority of KL customers (as for any airline) are *non* frequent flyers. These people couldn't care less about C class bonuses and V class mileage accumulation.

3) For a lot of people, (for business travel) the company decides which airline to fly. Schedule and price are far more important than frequent flyer programs.

4) To the person above who writes that the 30% of UK FD members "take KL because of good frequent flyer program, even it involves a transfer instead of a direct flight" that is of course not true. The vast majority of KL's UK regular customers come from smaller airports like Norwich, Edinburgh, Bristol that don't have direct flights to Nairobi or Kuala Lumpur.

Can we agree that "we" (the regular posters here) are not typical for the average KLM flyer? I am also not happy with the upcoming changes in the FD program, but it is an industry trend and there is not much we can do against it.