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Tickets partially or fully paid for using Air Miles (class G)
My Airmiles ticket last year, AMS-PRG-AMS was not issued as a G class but as a normal M-class. For the leg to PRG my partner and I we got 500 miles. For the leg PRG-AMS on the statement the flight was mentioned but with 0 'zero' miles. I called up with the helpdesk and claimed about the missing 500 miles. The answer from the helpdesk was short and clear (from their point of view) I should have known that all airmiles tickets are G class tickets but that they are printed as M class tickets just for the reason that that is easier for the KLM to handle. I start the discussion and told them that when the tickect shows M-class it is M-class and nothing else! And I told them that the way they have mention this rule in their overview can be read as: You get miles on airmiles tickets except for airmiles tickets booked in G-class In the end I lost and it was goodwill of the KLM that the miles I got by mistake on the AMS-PRG were not deducted from the account. Even the booking class on the ticket shows a class for earning miles, you will not get always your miles! |
Originally Posted by Sjoerd
The mistake that most of you are making is to believe that your flying behaviour is typical for the average KLM-flyer.
Undoubtedly there will be *some* people who will change their flights away from KLM as a result of these -still unconfirmed- changes in the FD program. But I suspect it will be very *few* people. Why? 1) Almost all other airlines have frequent flyer programs that are worse than KLM's, even after the changes of this thread have been made. I am a member of LH and CX programs, both of which are significantly worse in terms of mileage accumulation and award redemption than KL. Major airlines such as BA and SQ also have lots of non miles earning or few miles earning booking classes. 2) The majority of KL customers (as for any airline) are *non* frequent flyers. These people couldn't care less about C class bonuses and V class mileage accumulation. 3) For a lot of people, (for business travel) the company decides which airline to fly. Schedule and price are far more important than frequent flyer programs. 4) To the person above who writes that the 30% of UK FD members "take KL because of good frequent flyer program, even it involves a transfer instead of a direct flight" that is of course not true. The vast majority of KL's UK regular customers come from smaller airports like Norwich, Edinburgh, Bristol that don't have direct flights to Nairobi or Kuala Lumpur. Can we agree that "we" (the regular posters here) are not typical for the average KLM flyer? I am also not happy with the upcoming changes in the FD program, but it is an industry trend and there is not much we can do against it. 1. The new KL/AF program will still be (if the changes in this thread is carrieg out) better that many other FF programs. 2. KL do indeed have many non FF customers i.e. from my home area Scandinavian. 3. If a person is allowed by her/his company to chose which airline to fly on to get most FF points and benefits over price. It is a outdated company without touch of their costs. Any professional company sets the price/flying time above all other. |
Originally Posted by alanw
The UK Status Match that *A did last year is looking like a smarter move all the time.
And lounge access from 16K, top status from 38K. Even with the lower earnings on discount classes, you will most probably make it to elite quicker than on AF/KL even when flying discount ec onomy(not to mention credit card earning, whereas neither AF nor KL offer any in the UK). |
I have done the same; 58000 miles on BD last year, (38000 for Gold), which I wouldnt in honest have thought about prior to the promotion. Their redemptions are very good too.
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It worked out great for me too. Have done 4 flights on Thai this year alone and have 4 more booked for the end of the month. Which i would have never done if it wasn't for the status match. Thanks *A.
The best thing is have always paid for Y and have travelled in Biz. Got a flight coming up next week where I have allready been upgraded from a paid Y ticket to "CONFIRMED" Biz ticket as it was my Birthday :D Can't comlain ^ |
Owners of SME's
I know at least 5 business owners who like me travel mainly on C on long haul flights. They dictate their own travel plans but none of them contribute to this forum, although most are avid readers.
If AF/KLM wishes to piss people off, there is always Skyteam or NW. The only lingering tie to KLM is the promise of lifetime elite for the 10 year top tier membership. I wonder if this will be enough to keep people with FD? I am off to parts anew later this year so NW & Continental plus other Skyteam members will get the business. If you have to move, move......life is too short too worry, especially if your loyalty is not reciprocated. Tom |
Although unreciprocated loyalty from KLM is not an all too rare occurance, most often it is not that easy to switch to another FF program that contains the same partners.
You site switching to NW or Skyteam, but when your home address is outside America you are forced to join FD. I am not sure what benefits a pure Skyteam membership will offer, or if you are automatically enrolled in FD or the new FD/AF FF program as well. Continental is an option and upon closer inspection, their point redeeming schematics seem more transparent than KLM's. Furthermore they have a rather handy booking tool where you can enter the class of ticket and receive an instant calculation of miles earned....Why can't KLM provide this on their booking tool? Downside: President's Club Membership: Lounge access is not earned through points but rather paid for on yearly or lifetime memberships. Another plus: Fly a V class International ticket with FD/AF and earn only 25% of miles flown for level miles......or Fly the same bird with Continental One Pass and earn 100%...... :-) decisions decisions |
CO's program is not all that wonderful, though. A quick trapise through their forum will tell you there are a lot of unhappy people there, and they have been for a lot longer time than we (sigh....remember when the only thing we had to ***** about was the occasional "not possible"?).
A more important question though is what will happen to the NW/KL alliance? I don't know the true nature of who owns what percent of whom, and have heard all sorts of random speculation presented as fact both here and on the NW forum. But I have noticed that on the latest KL propaganda (Win a trip to the Airbus factory, for example) NW and any mention of it is long gone, replaced by an interesting KLM | Air France logo. I wonder if this could mean the end of their co-branding relationship, and the return of both FF programs to worldwide coverage. |
Originally Posted by texas gold
Another plus: Fly a V class International ticket with FD/AF and earn only 25% of miles flown for level miles......or Fly the same bird with Continental One Pass and earn 100%......
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Originally Posted by alanw
A more important question though is what will happen to the NW/KL alliance? I don't know the true nature of who owns what percent of whom, and have heard all sorts of random speculation presented as fact both here and on the NW forum. But I have noticed that on the latest KL propaganda (Win a trip to the Airbus factory, for example) NW and any mention of it is long gone, replaced by an interesting KLM | Air France logo. I wonder if this could mean the end of their co-branding relationship, and the return of both FF programs to worldwide coverage.
I would expect the codeshare/revenue share on transatlantic to persist, even perhaps the mutual handling, etc... but the FF aspects of the partnership to be whittled down to the ST standard. In particular, I would not expect the complimentary upgrade to First class on domestic NW to survive, as it would mean extending it to AF FFers and I don't think that AF and NW are willing to go for that. Nor would I expect access to worldclubs when not traveling ST to survive either. OTOH, I would expect Europeans to regain our freedom to join WorldPerks if we want to. |
Originally Posted by NickB
I am so glad I discovered BD thanks to the promotion. Admittedly, they do dumb things every now and then but they are leagues above KL and AF in terms in customer service. Even with the lower earnings on discount classes you will most probably make it to elite quicker than on AF/KL even when flying discount economy (not to mention credit card earning, whereas neither AF nor KL offer any in the UK).
Sjoerd I disagree with every aspect of your analysis. The decision of KLM to pull out of the UK domestic market in 2000 was one of the key reasons a lot of UK customers left FD a few years' back; KLM foolishly assumed UK flyers simply wanted to reach far-flung destinations via AMS, ignoring the lucrative domestic market and the existance of competition. If anyone in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Leeds Bradford, Birmingham or Manchester wishes to fly to Kuala Lumpur or Addis Abbaba they have the option of more frequent connections and classier service with two other major alliances through LHR. In the case of Manchester they are quite likely to have a direct flight too. In the case of Belfast they no longer have a choice at all. Why should anyone want to put up with atrocious outsourced ground handling used by KLM in the UK and a crap frequent flyer program when they can get top level service with OneWorld or Star? It is also untrue that the majority of airline customers do not partake in frequent flyer programs. Any basic analysis of the US market in particular will tell you otherwise. And to claim KLM has the best frequent flyer program is simplistic in the extreme. Best for what? As demonstrated here on countless occasions, Flying Dutchman is much more appealing in theory than in practice. Personally I'd rather have a less generous program that did what it promised in an efficient manner. |
Originally Posted by texas gold
You site switching to NW or Skyteam, but when your home address is outside America you are forced to join FD.
Continental is an option and upon closer inspection, their point redeeming schematics seem more transparent than KLM's. \ |
Originally Posted by ajamieson
^ ^ Exactly.
And to claim KLM has the best frequent flyer program is simplistic in the extreme. Best for what? As demonstrated here on countless occasions, Flying Dutchman is much more appealing in theory than in practice. Personally I'd rather have a less generous program that did what it promised in an efficient manner. Q: Can I earn miles on any KLM flight? A: This is not possible. Q: Even paid J class? A: This is not possible. Q: Can I obtain an award ticket? A: This is not possible Q: Can I speak with Customer Service A: This is not possible. We do not recognize Customer Service. New tagline: "With KLM, anything is _not possible_!" Celebrate this new directness, lack of ambiguity and sense of purpose on the part of the blue demons! :p At least the KL flights are still posting to my WP account... for now. RTS |
And the change would be? ;)
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I wonder if they'll still use the bird as the company mascot. What is it...an albatross?
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