KLM intra europe - a poor product?
#16
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: GOT
Programs: KL Plat
Posts: 484
As for AF, I mean it's not possible full stop. One of the advertised advantages of Elite and Elite+ is the ability to select standard seats at least for free in advance. However AF seem to not open up selection until checkin. Tomorrow I'm flying 3 AF legs, both HOP and AF. None of them allowed seat selection before checkin. The 2 KLM legs I'm flying tomorrow I've been able to pick a seat from booking, as always happens with KLM. I have been able to pick seats in advance on AF, but that's definitely an exception rather than standard.
What really got me today, was checkin opened for my 1st AF flight 00.15 this morning. It's departing from GOT, so there's no logical way of connecting to this flight thus being able to checkin earlier. I completed checkin within 2 minutes, noticed when selecting seats that several were already unavailable, and when I got the boarding pass emailed at 00.17 I was sequence 16? Were there really 15 others with nothing better to do at 00.15 than wait for checkin to open and beat me? AF certainly operate in mysterious ways!
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold
Posts: 28,751
Of course, if you choose your carriers appropriately, although you will pay the fees that both an arriving passenger and a departing passenger pay - rather than the cheaper fees levied on transiting passengers - you at least can avoid the security checks during your "self-connect" as long as you stay airside.
#19
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 240
Must just be lucky me that gets the Cityhoppers from the dungeons of B1-6
As for AF, I mean it's not possible full stop. One of the advertised advantages of Elite and Elite+ is the ability to select standard seats at least for free in advance. However AF seem to not open up selection until checkin. Tomorrow I'm flying 3 AF legs, both HOP and AF. None of them allowed seat selection before checkin.
As for AF, I mean it's not possible full stop. One of the advertised advantages of Elite and Elite+ is the ability to select standard seats at least for free in advance. However AF seem to not open up selection until checkin. Tomorrow I'm flying 3 AF legs, both HOP and AF. None of them allowed seat selection before checkin.
And indeed often but not always, AF does allow seat selection álso on KL flights when sometimes KL does not allow it. Once in a blue moon i fly in the back and it's fine. KL c-class or eco is actually more comfortable(not always) than AF, but only on the 737. Cityhopper e-comfort is not worth paying for imo.
1/4 of my flights is on KL metal, so i probably just got used to airbus. I'd rather fly a packed AF narrowbody than a packed 737(in eco!) the horror of CDG flights
Last edited by Mcflyneo; Mar 2, 2018 at 10:47 am
#20
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,089
As for AF, I mean it's not possible full stop. One of the advertised advantages of Elite and Elite+ is the ability to select standard seats at least for free in advance. However AF seem to not open up selection until checkin. Tomorrow I'm flying 3 AF legs, both HOP and AF. None of them allowed seat selection before checkin. The 2 KLM legs I'm flying tomorrow I've been able to pick a seat from booking, as always happens with KLM. I have been able to pick seats in advance on AF, but that's definitely an exception rather than standard.
Never flown HOP! or JOON yet.
What really got me today, was checkin opened for my 1st AF flight 00.15 this morning. It's departing from GOT, so there's no logical way of connecting to this flight thus being able to checkin earlier. I completed checkin within 2 minutes, noticed when selecting seats that several were already unavailable, and when I got the boarding pass emailed at 00.17 I was sequence 16? Were there really 15 others with nothing better to do at 00.15 than wait for checkin to open and beat me? AF certainly operate in mysterious ways!
Otherwise I do get notifications on my phone when checkin opens, so maybe just someone had their phones at them and then it's a question of seconds to check in.
In that case, you are an Amsterdam-originating passenger as far as the second flight is concerned, and will have been levied the fees accordingly.
Of course, if you choose your carriers appropriately, although you will pay the fees that both an arriving passenger and a departing passenger pay - rather than the cheaper fees levied on transiting passengers - you at least can avoid the security checks during your "self-connect" as long as you stay airside.
Of course, if you choose your carriers appropriately, although you will pay the fees that both an arriving passenger and a departing passenger pay - rather than the cheaper fees levied on transiting passengers - you at least can avoid the security checks during your "self-connect" as long as you stay airside.
I thought HOP! never has pre-seat selection but on the other hand, their flights are barely full(my experience at least) so i always end up on row 1 or 2 anyway.
And indeed often but not always, AF does allow seat selection álso on KL flights when sometimes KL does not allow it. Once in a blue moon i fly in the back and it's fine. KL c-class and e-comfort is actually more comfortable(not always) than AF, but only on the 737. Cityhopper e-comfort is not worth paying for imo.
1/4 of my flights is on KL metal, so i probably just got used to airbus. I'd rather fly a packed AF narrowbody than a packed 737(in eco!) the horror of CDG flights
And indeed often but not always, AF does allow seat selection álso on KL flights when sometimes KL does not allow it. Once in a blue moon i fly in the back and it's fine. KL c-class and e-comfort is actually more comfortable(not always) than AF, but only on the 737. Cityhopper e-comfort is not worth paying for imo.
1/4 of my flights is on KL metal, so i probably just got used to airbus. I'd rather fly a packed AF narrowbody than a packed 737(in eco!) the horror of CDG flights
EC in E-Jets is not as good as in 737s, possibly, but then E-Jets are pretty good even in the back. And you do lose one of the EC advantages, being in the front and being fast out of the airplane. Not much help if you then just wait in the bus.
I still occasionally pay for it. 5 ish EUR is pittance.
#21
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 240
I understand the choice to pay for comfort, but as mentioned before, i chose MR's as my temp. hobby(and it has payed off), thus i try to keep them as cheap as possible. Lets say hypothetically i would pay 5-ish for each MR segment, that adds up to a 5th of my ICA ticket(where e-comfort and status have significantly more added value).
I only fly comfort when i have enough miles to pay for it, not with cash.
I only fly comfort when i have enough miles to pay for it, not with cash.
Last edited by Mcflyneo; Mar 2, 2018 at 7:29 am
#22
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DMV
Posts: 2,092
I am not especially enamoured of KL's food but these are the kind of things on which different people will have different views. On transfers, I find CDG pretty painless these days and I don't find AMS much superior on that front anymore. The one thing on which KL is, imo, manifestly below par compared to other major European airlines is lounges and in particular the very low quality of catering in Crown lounges at AMS: very limited choices and canteen slop-style of food for the warm dishes. Not the end of the world but to me KL is decidedly average: I will neither avoid them nor make special efforts to fly them. They're OK but no more than that.
Regarding the lounges, I'm not a big lounge eater (I avoid buffets in general) so I can't comment on that. In terms of seating the Crown Lounge is no worse than the 'regular' CDG AF lounges. And given I usually just want a diet coke, I quite like the burger place style soda machines in AMS, didn't see those in CDG.
#23
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SJJ/AMS
Posts: 4,649
I am not especially enamoured of KL's food but these are the kind of things on which different people will have different views. On transfers, I find CDG pretty painless these days and I don't find AMS much superior on that front anymore. The one thing on which KL is, imo, manifestly below par compared to other major European airlines is lounges and in particular the very low quality of catering in Crown lounges at AMS: very limited choices and canteen slop-style of food for the warm dishes. Not the end of the world but to me KL is decidedly average: I will neither avoid them nor make special efforts to fly them. They're OK but no more than that.
G
#25
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 240
It occurs to me on cdg-ams flights, regardless of the designated ticket number (057/074). Bear in mind that there are multiple variables like the issuing agent, accounting to denied seat selection as well.
#26
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: AMS/LYS
Programs: FB Gold
Posts: 130
My main connections are Schengen-EU to Non-Schengen EU (and vice versa) and Non-Schengen EU to U.S (and back). I don't use CDG that much but when I do I always seem to have to go through security again which hasn't been the case in AMS for a couple of years now. For me that alone is a defining difference as it allows me to book shorter connections and is overall just plain more convenient.
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,367
My main connections are Schengen-EU to Non-Schengen EU (and vice versa) and Non-Schengen EU to U.S (and back). I don't use CDG that much but when I do I always seem to have to go through security again which hasn't been the case in AMS for a couple of years now. For me that alone is a defining difference as it allows me to book shorter connections and is overall just plain more convenient.
Are you sure about that? There is no reason why there should be a security check from 2F to 2L/2M. Most of my connections are from Schengen to the UK, which means typically 2F-2E/K or 2G-2E/K and neither require going through security.
#28
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK/FR
Programs: FlyingBlue Platinum, Hertz PC
Posts: 886
There's no need for another security screening for *any* EU flights (except for spotchecks or temporary measures on certain destinations)
The need for a security check only arises if you originate in AMS, or arrive from an untrusted country. All EU countries are on the trusted list.
The need for a security check only arises if you originate in AMS, or arrive from an untrusted country. All EU countries are on the trusted list.
#29
#30
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: HAG
Programs: Der 5* FTL
Posts: 8,089
Could be. So far pretty much all of my KL flights were bought either on KL web or AF web.