KLM intra europe - a poor product?

Old Mar 1, 2018, 3:45 pm
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KLM intra europe - a poor product?

OK, I love the meals, drinks and service - but having no wifi on board in 2018? I feel KLM is really lagging behind on this point. Even the low price carrier Norwegian offers free Wifi.
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Old Mar 1, 2018, 4:10 pm
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Originally Posted by KLBGO
OK, I love the meals, drinks and service - but having no wifi on board in 2018? I feel KLM is really lagging behind on this point. Even the low price carrier Norwegian offers free Wifi.
I think that someone is in need of a very serious reality check, here. You can count on the fingers of one hand the number of European airlines currently offering wifi on short-haul: Norwegian, SAS and some Lufthansa group airlines (and even then, not on the totality of their intra-European flights). The immense majority of European airlines do not. So having no wifi onboard, far from lagging behind, is the industry norm for now. This is likely to change in the next few years but we are very far from being there yet.
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Old Mar 1, 2018, 6:41 pm
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I don't care about WiFi on a 60-100 minute flight really. I find KLM's short-haul product is overall pretty solid in comparison to their competitors - especially because of Economy Comfort. Yes some people complain about but it beats regular crappy Y for sure. On that note, KLM's business class also beats many others because it's at least the EC seats with an empty seat guaranteed rather than plain old 31 inch pitch economy seats as on a number of other carrier. That's maybe faint praise but the market is what it is, and you take what you can get.

Beyond that, I actually like the food they serve better than that of their competitors as well. Also, AMS is a good connecting airport - better than CDG/LHR/FRA - so that's nice too. All in all, KLM is my airline of choice within Europe.
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Old Mar 1, 2018, 7:27 pm
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Originally Posted by Ber2dca
I don't care about WiFi on a 60-100 minute flight really. I find KLM's short-haul product is overall pretty solid in comparison to their competitors - especially because of Economy Comfort. Yes some people complain about but it beats regular crappy Y for sure. On that note, KLM's business class also beats many others because it's at least the EC seats with an empty seat guaranteed rather than plain old 31 inch pitch economy seats as on a number of other carrier. That's maybe faint praise but the market is what it is, and you take what you can get.

Beyond that, I actually like the food they serve better than that of their competitors as well. Also, AMS is a good connecting airport - better than CDG/LHR/FRA - so that's nice too. All in all, KLM is my airline of choice within Europe.
I am not especially enamoured of KL's food but these are the kind of things on which different people will have different views. On transfers, I find CDG pretty painless these days and I don't find AMS much superior on that front anymore. The one thing on which KL is, imo, manifestly below par compared to other major European airlines is lounges and in particular the very low quality of catering in Crown lounges at AMS: very limited choices and canteen slop-style of food for the warm dishes. Not the end of the world but to me KL is decidedly average: I will neither avoid them nor make special efforts to fly them. They're OK but no more than that.
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Old Mar 2, 2018, 12:37 am
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Originally Posted by KLBGO
OK, I love the meals, drinks and service - but having no wifi on board in 2018? I feel KLM is really lagging behind on this point...
Books, magazines, Sudoku, crossword puzzles, downloaded movies, downloaded videos, a downloaded opera, computer games, plenty of possibilities besides wifi!
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Old Mar 2, 2018, 3:18 am
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Originally Posted by NickB
in particular the very low quality of catering in Crown lounges at AMS: very limited choices and canteen slop-style of food for the warm dishes.
Truly terrible. I'm sure jails serve their inmates better food.

Fortunately AMS has a culinary knight in shining armor in the shape of the Privium lounge.

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Old Mar 2, 2018, 3:26 am
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Originally Posted by Ber2dca
I actually like the food they serve better than that of their competitors as well.
Althought they have been chipping away at the shorthaul J product for nigh on two decades now, the current catering is OK. I like the sandwiches served at lunchtime, as well as the fact that you actually have a choice. Breakfast and dinner are so-so.

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Old Mar 2, 2018, 4:03 am
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Now if they could get rid of the wraps they sometimes serve on intra-europe Y, that would be great.
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Old Mar 2, 2018, 4:32 am
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AMS is a good connecting airport because for most EU flights there's no need for another security screening like CDG and if the automatic passport lanes are open it goes smoothly. The only issues are with the lounges.
I've perfected the art of getting a free middle seat if the flight isn't full so even though I'm in EC, I travel like in J for most of my EU flights.
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Old Mar 2, 2018, 5:11 am
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Originally Posted by Mirk
AMS is a good connecting airport because for most EU flights there's no need for another security screening like CDG and if the automatic passport lanes are open it goes smoothly..
There's no need for another security screening for *any* EU flights (except for spotchecks or temporary measures on certain destinations)

The need for a security check only arises if you originate in AMS, or arrive from an untrusted country. All EU countries are on the trusted list.
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Old Mar 2, 2018, 5:13 am
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Originally Posted by Ber2dca
I don't care about WiFi on a 60-100 minute flight really. I find KLM's short-haul product is overall pretty solid in comparison to their competitors - especially because of Economy Comfort. Yes some people complain about but it beats regular crappy Y for sure. On that note, KLM's business class also beats many others because it's at least the EC seats with an empty seat guaranteed rather than plain old 31 inch pitch economy seats as on a number of other carrier. That's maybe faint praise but the market is what it is, and you take what you can get.

Beyond that, I actually like the food they serve better than that of their competitors as well. Also, AMS is a good connecting airport - better than CDG/LHR/FRA - so that's nice too. All in all, KLM is my airline of choice within Europe.
Yep, KL intra-Europe is as good as or better than most of their competitors.
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Old Mar 2, 2018, 5:38 am
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Originally Posted by Ber2dca
..I find KLM's short-haul product is overall pretty solid in comparison to their competitors - especially because of Economy Comfort. ..All in all, KLM is my airline of choice within Europe.
eco-comfort differences and availability cityhopper-klm intra europe, not so solid imo. i'm more comfortable on an AF airbus than a klm 737 sardine can. does klm have USB option on any intra-european flight?
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Old Mar 2, 2018, 5:51 am
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I find KLM in EC is plenty fine. I'm fairly sure the 737s feature 230v sockets under the seats. You wouldn't know they're there unless you went looking for them though. Can't remember about USB but will take a look tomorrow.

My gripe with Cityhopper flights out of AMS is the inevitable bus to the plane with the associated free-for-all. IIRC at CDG their transfer busses do have a SkyPriority section at the back, as to whether anybody pays attention to it though...

At least when booking KLM you have the option to choose a seat. In my experience the majority of AF/HOP flights intra-EU are 'seat selection at check-in only'.
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Old Mar 2, 2018, 6:29 am
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There's definitely no USB on any of KLM's or KLC's short and medium haul fleet.
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Old Mar 2, 2018, 6:36 am
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
There's no need for another security screening for *any* EU flights (except for spotchecks or temporary measures on certain destinations)

The need for a security check only arises if you originate in AMS, or arrive from an untrusted country. All EU countries are on the trusted list.
Well in theory if one counts "connecting" as on two separate tickets, you could have to do so if your outbound is leaving from the LCC part.

Originally Posted by AJCNL
Yep, KL intra-Europe is as good as or better than most of their competitors.
Agreed.

Originally Posted by Mcflyneo
eco-comfort differences and availability cityhopper-klm intra europe, not so solid imo. i'm more comfortable on an AF airbus than a klm 737 sardine can. does klm have USB option on any intra-european flight?
KLM 737 is vastly more comfortable in the front than any AF A32f I've been on, and at worst, comparable in the back. I don't know about A320s in the front as I've never been able to get a seat in front of the wing on AF.
Plus the fee to reserve EC seat on KLM is still less than a regular seat on AF.

USB I don't think so. But on a shourthaul I don't miss it.

Originally Posted by Solevita
I find KLM in EC is plenty fine. I'm fairly sure the 737s feature 230v sockets under the seats. You wouldn't know they're there unless you went looking for them though. Can't remember about USB but will take a look tomorrow.

My gripe with Cityhopper flights out of AMS is the inevitable bus to the plane with the associated free-for-all. IIRC at CDG their transfer busses do have a SkyPriority section at the back, as to whether anybody pays attention to it though...

At least when booking KLM you have the option to choose a seat. In my experience the majority of AF/HOP flights intra-EU are 'seat selection at check-in only'.
I've had Cityhopper flights board from the terminal directly, on the far side of B gates.

Seat selection I think is possible with AF but more expensive than KL.
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