Seat13c

CLE is a CO base. DTW is a DL base. CAK is a smaller but expensive station than what B6 is looking to do right now. Plus all three cities have a declining population base and it has been that way for years.

rrz518

Perhaps, however:

But JFK is also a DL hub, and somehow Jetblue maintains a presence there.

CMH is neither a hub, nor declining, and from what I'm told, Jetblue did reasonably OK there, but left nonetheless.

Spirit somehow manages to make do in DTW; in spite of the city's woes the airport seems to be doing quite nicely. Same goes for Southwest, who has been at both DTW & CLE for many years, not to mention the Airtran focus at CAK.

As to the fortress hub argument, I'd bet that there are enough disenchanted DL/CO customers out there that would be thrilled with a Jetblue presence at either.

Couldn't it be more likely that Jetblue's attitude of said markets as flyover country is the cause?

Seat13c

The point I was trying to get across is that there are not always profits to be made at hubs. JFK, LAX, and ORD are three of the few where a carrier can make a profit with large operations and a competing carrier boasts its hub there. The reason is extremely large scale populations with huge big business operations that both call the city's metro area home. CLE and DTW have not seen a positive population growth in decades. Also, there business at home really haven't been know for any really large scale economical growth over the last decade. And CAK (not CMH) is just a small scale city that doesn't offer and door buster deals to get people in the door, er, city gates.

The key for 2011, by B6 recent claims, is going to be most growth for the carrier in latin American countries. You might see B6 move into a new US market if a sweet heart deal is given but don't count on many if any this there.

haddon90

i don't think CLE has much in terms of O&D traffic.

and LEX and TYS? def not enough there for B6 to warrant anything.

rrz518

Then how is it that CAK has seen such growth? I've been told that it's one of the fastest growing airports in the country, and as evidenced by all the Airtran activity there, there's prob. some truth to that.

Keep in mind that the drivable range to CLE/CAK includes western Ohio (Toledo), Columbus, Pittsburgh, and up thru Buffalo, I'd think that there would be ample opportunities.

Seat13c

Why would people in Pittsburg and Buffalo drive to CLE? Both cities have ample service and I don't think the fares in CLE or CAK would be any better to make it worth a long drive.

haddon90

when your airport only serves a handful of cities, i can see why adding two destinations is seen as "such growth."

and compared to the other hubs in the US, i'm willing to bet CLE is pretty low down the list in terms of O&D traffic. maybe that will explain the reason for downsizing to RJ's instead of mainline a/c from the likes of DL, AA, and US?

rrz518

I've flown to PIT (on B6) b/c they don't offer service to CLE. I've driven to CLE b/c of favorable fares from TOL.

Quaker325

There are certainly cities larger than CLE unserved by JetBlue, but CLE is a larger metro area than Charlotte, Raleigh, Richmond, Buffalo, and others...

Seat13c

That's totaly your chose for not to fly directly into CLE on another carrier. If its a lot cheaper to go B6 to PIT and drive it, I'm all for it. However, I would imagine that it's not a very common practice with very many PAX.

If the fares are so favorable in TOL, why don't you just take another carrier straight into TOL?

But a difference between a CLT and CLE is the directions the populations are going. CLT and the like are going up in populations, business entities, and wealth. CLE has been seeing negative population and business growth since the 70's (albeit at a very slow rate but still negative).

rrz518

[QUOTE=Seat13c;15791710]
If the fares are so favorable in TOL, why don't you just take another carrier straight into TOL?


\QUOTE]

That's not what I said (or at least what I meant). I've flown to CLE (instead of TOL) due to the better fares and routes from Cleveland, and then driven (back) to Toledo.

For that matter, I fly to DTW at least 2x per month, while my destination is really Toledo.

My point being that while I'm headed to Toledo, I'll rarely fly there due to cost and lack of good connections, instead using DTW, CLE, CMH, DAY, FNT, PIT, IND, etc. All of which are favorable, at least for cost, to TOL.

Should Jetblue ever decide to go to CLE or (even better) DTW, I'd at least have a strong inclination to use them over DL or CO, both of which are in my view, mediocre.

Dieuwer

I think TYS-DCA might do well.

N830MH

I agree. I think it will work out very well. Besides, I think B6 is considering service TYS-MCO/FLL/BOS/AUS and etc. There goes some little bit more tough competitions against G4.

sbm12

I think you're both nuts.

JetBlue has so few DCA slots that they aren't going to use them on a brand new station with limited documented demand and yield. Maybe if they got additional slots somewhere but I still think they'd focus on established markets with more known profits.

Dieuwer

Didn't know B6 had few DCA slots...