FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Japan (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan-509/)
-   -   Is Japan doomed? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan/1034113-japan-doomed.html)

hailstorm Jan 30, 2012 6:07 pm


Originally Posted by joejones (Post 17918396)

I'd call it a rebuttal, as I wouldn't consider one guy's blog post the definitive word for the opposing viewpoint.

Q Shoe Guy Jan 30, 2012 6:18 pm


Originally Posted by mjm (Post 17918577)
I am always intrigued by references to "Japan" building things. It is as if people believed it were not individual firms making decisions on construction and urban redevelopment.

The Spike piece was interesting, and at times amusing. Heathrow over Narita as an airport for example. :) Pass the pipe.

In general I think the biggest issue is not so much how much supply there is, it is more a function of how quickly pricing adjusts. The market, the residential and commercial sectors anyway, is highly elastic and when buildings are full prices rise. It is manageable, but it takes a bold approach to get past the short term slow down.

Would certainly agree that the real-estate market in Tokyo....and laterally the ROJ would take a bold approach. When I was whiling away time wandering the hallowed streets I began to notice that many of the smaller/and often times just completed buildings were empty, or had at least a few floors empty. This might just be in places like Omoetaesando/Shibuya/Aoyama/Daikanyama etc. that have a lot of space for retail.(this brought back memories of my former burg...and the spread to Fukuoka). I guess it would mean that the landlords and their prospective clients can not meet on a price. That said, they still keep on building....with Tokyu bringing online new buildings in Shibuya/Harajuku. I really had to wonder what percentage of Hikarie will be rented from the outset? And what effect this will have on the buildings around it ? Will you see more vacancies than there were 3 months ago, when I last stopped by?

5khours Jan 30, 2012 7:31 pm


Originally Posted by joejones (Post 17918326)
This depends on your nationality. Americans are given a grace period after naturalizing in Japan, because the US government will not allow them to renounce citizenship if it would make them stateless.

In other countries, such as Britain, you CAN expatriate yourself while a naturalization application is pending somewhere else, so the Japanese government requires proof of expatriation as a prereq to naturalization (see here for an example).

That said, even Americans are supposed to expatriate themselves within two years after naturalizing in Japan. What happens if you don't is a separate question.

That is for naturalization. The situation is different for kids born into dual nationality.

joejones Jan 30, 2012 8:03 pm


Originally Posted by 5khours (Post 17919037)
That is for naturalization. The situation is different for kids born into dual nationality.

Oh, apologies.

It still depends on your other nationality, though. At the very least you have to tell the Japanese government that you hereby renounce the other nationality, which may or may not be a valid renunciation from the other country's perspective. The US won't recognize such a statement, but other countries may (I believe that most East Asian countries will).

acregal Jan 30, 2012 9:08 pm


Originally Posted by 5khours (Post 17917255)
Also - IMHO, the falling birthrates are a result of the lousy economy.

In Japan I think it's pretty complex. For one, in most places, child care is quite difficult to obtain. Then there's the work conditions - most places just don't have the kind of work arrangements necessary for a family with two working parents.

Every day in Umeda I walk past a fairly new building (2 or 3 years old) that sits empty. I don't remember when it was built but it's always been empty.

Q Shoe Guy Jan 30, 2012 9:37 pm


Originally Posted by acregal (Post 17919501)

Every day in Umeda I walk past a fairly new building (2 or 3 years old) that sits empty. I don't remember when it was built but it's always been empty.

If you took another look(I am sure you have far better things to do).....in many of the buildings you will find a floor or two empty, and just as you say, entire "new" buildings empty! Retail buildings have many empty spaces, and how many more shopping places do you need targeted at 20 something women:p ?

acregal Jan 30, 2012 10:49 pm


Originally Posted by Q Shoe Guy (Post 17919616)
If you took another look(I am sure you have far better things to do).....in many of the buildings you will find a floor or two empty, and just as you say, entire "new" buildings empty! Retail buildings have many empty spaces, and how many more shopping places do you need targeted at 20 something women:p ?

I certainly have noticed that.

At the same time, a lot of first and second floor spaces are filled quickly - it's just those spaces on higher floors that tend to linger. A lot of spaces in newer malls are occupied and, if a store goes out of business, a new store moves in fairly quickly.

hailstorm Jan 30, 2012 11:07 pm

Getting back to the original topic...the real question isn't whether or not Japan is doomed, but whether or not Japan is doomed any faster than the rest of the world. Because the nation that is doomed last is the winner.

kcvt750 Jan 30, 2012 11:57 pm


Originally Posted by jib71 (Post 17918437)
Joe has already posted the Spike rebuttal which is more comprehensive than that piece deserved.

x 2 on the Fingleton piece. I haven't seen that quality of hallucination since Samuel Coleridge quit using opium.

jib71 Jan 31, 2012 3:01 am


Originally Posted by mjm (Post 17918577)
The Spike piece was interesting, and at times amusing. Heathrow over Narita as an airport for example. :) Pass the pipe.

That's a point that the Spike author prefaces with the disclaimer that it's a wholly subjective preference. It serves to highlight the subjectivity of Fingleton's comment about JFK and IAD being "potent symbols of American infrastructural decay".

Pickles Jan 31, 2012 7:48 am


Originally Posted by jib71 (Post 17920581)
It serves to highlight the subjectivity of Fingleton's comment about JFK and IAD being "potent symbols of American infrastructural decay".

The fact that Eamonn suffers from a strange form of feverish paranoia doesn't mean that JFK and IAD aren't potent symbols of American infrastructural decay. They certainly are.

On the other hand, equating a strong yen with a strong country (among other beauts in that article) is just arrant nonsense.

mjm Jan 31, 2012 8:02 am


Originally Posted by jib71 (Post 17920581)
That's a point that the Spike author prefaces with the disclaimer that it's a wholly subjective preference. It serves to highlight the subjectivity of Fingleton's comment about JFK and IAD being "potent symbols of American infrastructural decay".

Yes. That is true. That said, JFK is the biggest embarrassment in the US as far as major gateways. IAD is not terrific, but I nominate LAX for a close second.

FLLDL Jan 31, 2012 8:09 am

Fingleton is the author of this timeless classic:

http://www.amazon.com/Blindside-Japa.../dp/0395633168

Anything he writes re: Japan should feature a disclaimer and a link to his book.

Pickles Jan 31, 2012 8:14 am


Originally Posted by FLLDL (Post 17921677)
Fingleton is the author of this timeless classic:

http://www.amazon.com/Blindside-Japa.../dp/0395633168

Anything he writes re: Japan should feature a disclaimer and a link to his book.

On the other hand he also wrote http://www.amazon.com/Praise-Hard-In...022692&sr=8-1] which is reasonably insightful.

But he does suffer from strange paranoid delusions.

LapLap Jan 31, 2012 9:11 am


Originally Posted by glac13 (Post 17918333)
Here's an op-ed in the NYT that takes a counter view: "The Myth of Japan's Failure" - http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/op...c-success.html

I saw this, but what surprised me was how much this topic was discussed in the British Media (it helped that the British Chancellor George Osborne was visiting Tokyo at the time). With the BBC giving the topic so much air time it was a surprising shift in attitude and a sign to me that the caricaturised version of recent history offered by Fingleton was a jolt to many armchair economists with similarly warped notions, but of Japan as a failure.
Perhaps this exaggerated tug will go somewhere to helping folks arrive at a more realistic perception of the country.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 4:10 am.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.