iahphx

I searched for and found this thread after being curious about a claim on Slickdeals that you could sell this week's much-hyped 50,000 Citi HHonors sign-up bonus to a mileage broker for $290.

I've never sold any awards points in my life but, I must say, I think $290 for 50,000 HHonors points is a deal I'd take if it were "risk-free." I did get that much value out of the points on a recent stay at a Cat. 1 property in Borneo but, in everyday life, I don't think 50,000 HHonors points is "worth that." My valuation would be based on the theory that if I got the cash instead of the points, could I buy better alternative accommodations for less money? Being a "sophisticated" flyertalk traveler, I think I could deploy the $290 better than the HHonors points about 90% of the time.

Of course, selling points does not seem to be risk-free, as this thread has indicated. And, honestly, for me as a traveler -- who sees collecting miles as a hobby and not a business -- I'm not likely to "go through the trouble" of dealing with a mileage broker. For "normal" folks who don't travel much (like 90%+ of the USA population -- especially those who might be a bit strapped for cash) -- I could see the appeal of the brokers. They'd also have less to lose if the program sponsors retaliated against them.

I do wonder if you can really sell relatively low mileage sums to the brokers, though. It seems like the way they make their money is providing the highest end awards to customers who would otherwise be looking at multi-thousand dollar travel arrangements (the proverbial first class ticket to Australia). I guess they can somehow "bundle" the bank loyalty points into one account for a high-value redemption, but how exactly would you bundle something like HHonors points?

If you could sell low-mileage balances to the brokers, I could even see the value of flyertalkers sometimes doing it. Like my family had some pretty high Skypeso balances last year, due to a combination of previous lucrative DL bonuses and the great difficulty of actually redeeming DL miles. With considerable effort, I booked a nice int'l award itinerary for my family, but now have left a couple of accounts with balances like 32,000, 27000 miles, etc. Since using those orphaned miles will undoubtedly be a PITA, I could see the appeal of selling them at a penny a piece and being done with it. But I suspect the brokers are looking to buy much higher balances, so they can redeem for more expensive tickets.

I also wonder if flyertalkers are competing against the brokers for scarce premium int'l award seats. Like I recently took advantage of the generous US int'l biz class award chart, but finding biz class tickets was remarkably difficult (you might get the impression from the mileage blogs that these seats are easy to come by -- not!). If the mileage brokers are taking these seats for resale, perhaps flyertalkers share the same interest as the airlines and hotel chains in prohibiting the sale of miles.

emofeng

Hi All,

I'm new to FlyerTalk...and this question might not be allowed...but...

Is it illegal to buy/sell miles? My friend has miles that he will not use. I was going to pay him $XXXX so he can book the flight for me. Now the airline is not going to know that I'm actually "paying" him for it and thus it might not be considered buying/selling...

Just wanted to know if this is legal and okay to do. He was considering selling his miles to other people too.

Thanks!

toomanybooks

Legal, yes.
Against the rules, yes.
Will your friend be screwed if he gets caught, yes.
Will your friend probably get away with it for a while, yes.
Will your friend eventually get caught, yes.

emofeng

Haha, thanks for the info! i will pass it along to him ASAP. How will the airline know? do they track it some how?

CDKing

If your friend has ever been busted for selling miles in the past, thats one way they may find out.

If you have ever bought or sold miles and been busted, thats another way

If your friend sells you miles and somehow is contacted by the airline and they slip up and say they paid for it is one way.

If he books a bunch of tickets for different people and not himself thats one way they can find out.

If either of you have dealt with a mileage broker in the past and that broker has since been gets caught and gives up names of customers, thats one way.

If these are AA miles the odds are much higher of getting caught

peachfront

If it's American Airlines, expect the person who flies to get the third degree. My own husband bought me an award ticket with miles recently and I was questioned for a solid 15 minutes at checkin. About a ticket using points from my own husband. Who lives at the same address. And has done so for over 30 years. I just had to laugh because it was so idiotic that they questioned this.

If AA is that mystified that a husband would buy his own wife an air ticket with miles, they might find it hard to believe that mere friends would give such a generous gift without money changing hands. You'd better have your story straight. Personally I wouldn't try it. If something goes wrong, the friendship's down the toilet...

Since he's considering going into business selling the miles to multiple people, and some of those people probably have an unknown ability to handle being questioned, I'd say your chances of getting caught are nonzero.

JPG3392

Buying miles from the airline is legitimate but expensive, and generally not worthwhile. Buying/selling miles from a participant in an FF program may not be illegal (=against the law), but it is a violation of the program's rules and regulations. If the violation is detected, the penalties administrated by the airline can be quite severe. Not recommended.

skibum7732

If he does this for a few people and the airline finds out...your ticket will be cancelled, so I'd steer clear if it was me

lin821

As a matter of fact, this line of questions has been popping up every couple of months, if not years. Here's just one sample thread that covers all the talking points:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...ing-miles.html

The replies have more of less been the same and the consequence also stays unchanged. The differences I've seen over my years on FT:
1) the increase of mileage brokers promoting their "business";
2) more risk-takers engaged in selling/buying miles, either from brokers or their acquaintances, for whatever reasons.

What still holds true is you just don't see those who ever get caught confess their "mistakes" and the ordeals they have to go through to fix those mistakes as much here on FT.

MSPeconomist

Perhaps worse, the ticket could be cancelled after you arrive at the destination. You'll be stranded and forced to buy a full fare one way ticket to get home. If you have a FF account with the airline, you could lose status/miles or even be banned from participation in the future.

Diotallevi

Hi,

Not sure where to post this so I thought I'd start here. Does anyone have any experience purchasing miles from a mileage broker?

Lot's of miles going for 1.85 cents. They mention that buying and selling miles is against airline policy, but not illegal (except in Utah).

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks

LostInAmerica

I have not purchased miles from any of the mileage brokers, but if you do there are risks.

As you said, it is against airline policies and if they detect the transaction they can (and will) close the account of the person selling the miles and cancel the ticket redeemed with them. If that happens, you are SOL.

MSPeconomist

The cost is less than a typical airline charges to transfer miles from one FF account to another, so I suspect that what they're trying to sell is really award tickets that they would book from someone else's account and then sell to you. You don't want to risk being caught doing this.

Diotallevi

Thanks for the responses. I doubt I'll do it, but it is a bit intriguing.

Anyway, US Airways often sells miles at under 2 cents/mile, and I've been buying them for years to fly NYC to NRT on ANA business class for under 2 grand. Of course that 90K US Airways/Star Alliance award on ANA will now be a 110K award on OneWorld/JAL, but still not a bad deal. Interestingly, the first class seat on the JFK/NRT route using US Airways miles is only 10K more than the business seat, coming in at 120K miles. I might have to try that if I can get availability.

apriltwo

Buying miles through the airlines is a waste of money. Although it is against the airline terms, it is not illegal in any way. There are many things that are against the terms of airlines. It really is a grey area, yet it is very common to sell credit card points. By the way, I don't think Amex is against it...

I have sold millions of points without a problem to a mileage broker and have had a great experience...

We all have to make our own educated choices.