Feb 23, 2015, 11:33 pm
Last edit by: aBroadAbroad
Please read this wiki before posting questions or comments.
Are they legit? Short answer: No
Virtually all award programs prohibit the sale, barter and purchase of awards and/or miles (except through channels specifically identified in the program T&C and/or endorsed by the program). Many airlines are known to audit their FFPs for such fraudulent transactions, and to aggressively enforce their programs' rules.
By definition, so-called "mileage" brokers are not legitimate. It is important to understand that they do not actually broker miles, but rather act as a middle-man to facilitate the purchase of award tickets. The seller redeems miles from his/her account for an award in a buyer's name. The broker pays the seller on behalf of the buyer. A clear audit trail is left in the process.
Consequences
If this activity is identified by the airline, the seller will lose any miles remaining in his/her account, the account will be terminated, and the seller will be banned from participating in that airline's program. The seller may also be subject to payment of monetary damages. Buyers, when attempting to travel on a purchased award, may be denied boarding at any point on the itinerary. At best, a special trip might not happen. At worst, the buyer might be stranded halfway around the world and forced to purchase a significantly more expensive one-way ticket in order to get home.
Are they legit? Short answer: No
Virtually all award programs prohibit the sale, barter and purchase of awards and/or miles (except through channels specifically identified in the program T&C and/or endorsed by the program). Many airlines are known to audit their FFPs for such fraudulent transactions, and to aggressively enforce their programs' rules.
By definition, so-called "mileage" brokers are not legitimate. It is important to understand that they do not actually broker miles, but rather act as a middle-man to facilitate the purchase of award tickets. The seller redeems miles from his/her account for an award in a buyer's name. The broker pays the seller on behalf of the buyer. A clear audit trail is left in the process.
Consequences
If this activity is identified by the airline, the seller will lose any miles remaining in his/her account, the account will be terminated, and the seller will be banned from participating in that airline's program. The seller may also be subject to payment of monetary damages. Buyers, when attempting to travel on a purchased award, may be denied boarding at any point on the itinerary. At best, a special trip might not happen. At worst, the buyer might be stranded halfway around the world and forced to purchase a significantly more expensive one-way ticket in order to get home.
Moderator Note
Please be reminded that FlyerTalk Rules prohibit posts that support, encourage or promote fraudulent activities against individuals or companies.
Posts naming specific mileage brokers and/or containing links to broker websites
may be redacted or deleted.
Please be reminded that FlyerTalk Rules prohibit posts that support, encourage or promote fraudulent activities against individuals or companies.
Posts naming specific mileage brokers and/or containing links to broker websites
may be redacted or deleted.
Mileage/Award Ticket Brokers: Are they legit? [consolidated]
Jul 10, 2013, 4:13 pm
#16
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 208
I don't know why everyone is freaking out over here. I have been selling miles for years without any issues. Yes you can theoretically get more value out of them by traveling but (1) I do that as well and (2) I specifically sign up for cards to help subsidize my income, is that not a factor for anyone here?
Breakdown: I sign up for a few CCs every 10-12 months (3BM of course!), meet the thresholds and then sell them for a few grand.
For mileage (as in already associated with an airline) I think the only program that officially allows you to sell them is ElAl. No it's not illegal to sell the other ones, it's just against their T&C, meaning if they catch you they might shut you down. I've sold tons and *knock on wood* haven't had any issues yet. From what I understand there are just certain "red flags" that the broker/agent/whatever has to know to watch out for.
For points (SPG, AmEx, Chase) it is much simpler. AmEx I have sold literally over 1MM of my personal points, SPG only a few hundred k. All that with no problems at all. Once I had to call in transfer to AmEx because website was down and spazzed while talking to the rep and told him I was selling them but he just said "oh don't tell me that"- they don't seem to care. With Chase I have also sold 7 figures worth. I used to use one broker but they have you transfer to another Chase account (as opposed to a mileage account, like United) which apparently Chase does not like!! I did a bit of research and found another broker who lets me sell to them by transferring to United instead. Much safer like that, and it seems like they pay more anyway.
Yes it's great to vacation for free and to go to bora bora etc, but my point is just that it is also sometimes nice to have a few grand of extra cash in my pocket!
Breakdown: I sign up for a few CCs every 10-12 months (3BM of course!), meet the thresholds and then sell them for a few grand.
For mileage (as in already associated with an airline) I think the only program that officially allows you to sell them is ElAl. No it's not illegal to sell the other ones, it's just against their T&C, meaning if they catch you they might shut you down. I've sold tons and *knock on wood* haven't had any issues yet. From what I understand there are just certain "red flags" that the broker/agent/whatever has to know to watch out for.
For points (SPG, AmEx, Chase) it is much simpler. AmEx I have sold literally over 1MM of my personal points, SPG only a few hundred k. All that with no problems at all. Once I had to call in transfer to AmEx because website was down and spazzed while talking to the rep and told him I was selling them but he just said "oh don't tell me that"- they don't seem to care. With Chase I have also sold 7 figures worth. I used to use one broker but they have you transfer to another Chase account (as opposed to a mileage account, like United) which apparently Chase does not like!! I did a bit of research and found another broker who lets me sell to them by transferring to United instead. Much safer like that, and it seems like they pay more anyway.
Yes it's great to vacation for free and to go to bora bora etc, but my point is just that it is also sometimes nice to have a few grand of extra cash in my pocket!
Last edited by beckoa; Feb 23, 2015 at 3:20 am Reason: Removing URL's
Jul 10, 2013, 7:14 pm
#17
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 994
I don't know why everyone is freaking out over here. I have been selling miles for years without any issues. Yes you can theoretically get more value out of them by traveling but (1) I do that as well and (2) I specifically sign up for cards to help subsidize my income, is that not a factor for anyone here?
Breakdown: I sign up for a few CCs every 10-12 months (3BM of course!), meet the thresholds and then sell them for a few grand.
For mileage (as in already associated with an airline) I think the only program that officially allows you to sell them is ElAl. No it's not illegal to sell the other ones, it's just against their T&C, meaning if they catch you they might shut you down. I've sold tons and *knock on wood* haven't had any issues yet. From what I understand there are just certain "red flags" that the broker/agent/whatever has to know to watch out for.
For points (SPG, AmEx, Chase) it is much simpler. AmEx I have sold literally over 1MM of my personal points, SPG only a few hundred k. All that with no problems at all. Once I had to call in transfer to AmEx because website was down and spazzed while talking to the rep and told him I was selling them but he just said "oh don't tell me that"- they don't seem to care. With Chase I have also sold 7 figures worth. I used to use one broker but they have you transfer to another Chase account (as opposed to a mileage account, like United) which apparently Chase does not like!! I did a bit of research and found another broker who lets me sell to them by transferring to United instead. Much safer like that, and it seems like they pay more anyway.
Yes it's great to vacation for free and to go to bora bora etc, but my point is just that it is also sometimes nice to have a few grand of extra cash in my pocket!
Breakdown: I sign up for a few CCs every 10-12 months (3BM of course!), meet the thresholds and then sell them for a few grand.
For mileage (as in already associated with an airline) I think the only program that officially allows you to sell them is ElAl. No it's not illegal to sell the other ones, it's just against their T&C, meaning if they catch you they might shut you down. I've sold tons and *knock on wood* haven't had any issues yet. From what I understand there are just certain "red flags" that the broker/agent/whatever has to know to watch out for.
For points (SPG, AmEx, Chase) it is much simpler. AmEx I have sold literally over 1MM of my personal points, SPG only a few hundred k. All that with no problems at all. Once I had to call in transfer to AmEx because website was down and spazzed while talking to the rep and told him I was selling them but he just said "oh don't tell me that"- they don't seem to care. With Chase I have also sold 7 figures worth. I used to use one broker but they have you transfer to another Chase account (as opposed to a mileage account, like United) which apparently Chase does not like!! I did a bit of research and found another broker who lets me sell to them by transferring to United instead. Much safer like that, and it seems like they pay more anyway.
Yes it's great to vacation for free and to go to bora bora etc, but my point is just that it is also sometimes nice to have a few grand of extra cash in my pocket!
Last edited by beckoa; Feb 23, 2015 at 3:21 am Reason: Removing URL's
Jul 10, 2013, 9:40 pm
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,393
I don't know why everyone is freaking out over here. I have been selling miles for years without any issues. Yes you can theoretically get more value out of them by traveling but (1) I do that as well and (2) I specifically sign up for cards to help subsidize my income, is that not a factor for anyone here?
Breakdown: I sign up for a few CCs every 10-12 months (3BM of course!), meet the thresholds and then sell them for a few grand.
For mileage (as in already associated with an airline) I think the only program that officially allows you to sell them is ElAl. No it's not illegal to sell the other ones, it's just against their T&C, meaning if they catch you they might shut you down. I've sold tons and *knock on wood* haven't had any issues yet. From what I understand there are just certain "red flags" that the broker/agent/whatever has to know to watch out for.
For points (SPG, AmEx, Chase) it is much simpler. AmEx I have sold literally over 1MM of my personal points, SPG only a few hundred k. All that with no problems at all. Once I had to call in transfer to AmEx because website was down and spazzed while talking to the rep and told him I was selling them but he just said "oh don't tell me that"- they don't seem to care. With Chase I have also sold 7 figures worth. I used to use one broker but they have you transfer to another Chase account (as opposed to a mileage account, like United) which apparently Chase does not like!! I did a bit of research and found another broker who lets me sell to them by transferring to United instead. Much safer like that, and it seems like they pay more anyway.
Yes it's great to vacation for free and to go to bora bora etc, but my point is just that it is also sometimes nice to have a few grand of extra cash in my pocket!
Breakdown: I sign up for a few CCs every 10-12 months (3BM of course!), meet the thresholds and then sell them for a few grand.
For mileage (as in already associated with an airline) I think the only program that officially allows you to sell them is ElAl. No it's not illegal to sell the other ones, it's just against their T&C, meaning if they catch you they might shut you down. I've sold tons and *knock on wood* haven't had any issues yet. From what I understand there are just certain "red flags" that the broker/agent/whatever has to know to watch out for.
For points (SPG, AmEx, Chase) it is much simpler. AmEx I have sold literally over 1MM of my personal points, SPG only a few hundred k. All that with no problems at all. Once I had to call in transfer to AmEx because website was down and spazzed while talking to the rep and told him I was selling them but he just said "oh don't tell me that"- they don't seem to care. With Chase I have also sold 7 figures worth. I used to use one broker but they have you transfer to another Chase account (as opposed to a mileage account, like United) which apparently Chase does not like!! I did a bit of research and found another broker who lets me sell to them by transferring to United instead. Much safer like that, and it seems like they pay more anyway.
Yes it's great to vacation for free and to go to bora bora etc, but my point is just that it is also sometimes nice to have a few grand of extra cash in my pocket!
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...solidated.html
It's possible it's low risk to sell mileage/points to a broker. There's very clear evidence on FT (in that thread) that it's not no risk.
Last edited by beckoa; Feb 23, 2015 at 3:22 am Reason: Removing URL's
Jul 11, 2013, 3:53 am
#19
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Home
Programs: AA, Delta, UA & thanks to FTers for my PC Gold!
Posts: 7,676
Just like speeding. Never getting a speeding ticket doesn't mean speeding is perfectly fine.
Some who got caught had shared their stories on FT about how they got banned from flying certain airlines or mileage accounts got zero out by the airlines. I'd seen those threads in AA, Delta, and the old Northwest Forum. For your entertainment, here's an very old thread from someone who was caught:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...ing-miles.html
For those who are willing to take the risk and accept the consequences, all I can say is, good luck!
Jul 12, 2013, 1:40 am
#20
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: California
Programs: Hyatt Global, Marriot Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 2,282
I didn't realize that this was against their terms and transfered 50,000 points to a mileage broker from my wife's account. Now she has two messages from the membership rewards fraud department. Would it be best to just be honest and state we didn't know this was not permitted? I don't want her to be blacklisted.
Last edited by beckoa; Feb 23, 2015 at 3:23 am Reason: Removing URL's
Jul 12, 2013, 6:04 am
#21
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Home Airports: CAE/CLT
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, National Executive
Posts: 5,452
Is this a confirmed information or an educated guess? I would uncomfortable to disclose this information about my spouse (if questioned about a ticket redeemed from her account) as this is pretty much a privacy invasion.
I don't mind answering these questions for immigration/CBP officers but would cut short airline employees' attempts to get this info disclosed.
I don't mind answering these questions for immigration/CBP officers but would cut short airline employees' attempts to get this info disclosed.
Cut short airline employess's attempts? Then you may be turned away. That has been reported as well.
Jul 12, 2013, 7:03 am
#22
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 208
Jul 14, 2013, 2:03 pm
#23
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 396
I used a mileage broker one time to sell some Ultimate Rewards pts and the transaction went through great, but then I decided to look elsewhere when I started hearing about Chase closing accounts for 3rd party transfers. I did some research and ended up finding sites that pay a lot more. I've gotten 1.5 cpm for AA and 1.6 for UA (I just transfer all my UR to my own UA account now). I sold amounts around 110k - 120k from accounts with balances not too much higher than that in case I get blacklisted.
Last edited by beckoa; Feb 23, 2015 at 3:25 am Reason: Removing URL's
Jul 14, 2013, 8:46 pm
#24
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,575
+1. Once they've caught you, the best thing to do is go ahead and sing like a canary. There are a lot of threads here - various programs - where there's been some leniency for a first-time offender. Maybe that account is locked and the miles are zapped, but you aren't blacklisted from flying or anything.
Jul 29, 2013, 10:19 am
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 60137
Posts: 10,498
Hello SOZ,
Thank you for contacting a mileage broker:
Due to the recent changes with British Airways (they are sporadically auditing and sometimes closing accounts for selling miles) we are currently paying 0.9 cents per mile for British Airways Avios miles, with 85k totaling $765.00. This is, however, only if the account is "clean", meaning that no one has flown using miles from this account other than people sharing the same last name as the account holder.
If this works for you please let us know and we will tell you how to get your money!
Thanks
Last edited by beckoa; Feb 23, 2015 at 3:27 am Reason: Removing URL's
Jul 29, 2013, 4:20 pm
#28
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1
Thanks for this thread. I used a mileage broker to sell amex and chase points a few times and it was okay then moved another mileage broker which was quicker and offered better rates.
Last edited by beckoa; Feb 23, 2015 at 3:28 am Reason: Removing URL's
Jul 29, 2013, 4:34 pm
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 60137
Posts: 10,498
Another data point:
Hi SOZ,
Thanks for your inquiry. We can pay $800 for your 85k BA points. Can you please tell me if any redemptions were made from the account before?
Thanks,
Eli
Hi SOZ,
Thanks for your inquiry. We can pay $800 for your 85k BA points. Can you please tell me if any redemptions were made from the account before?
Thanks,
Eli
Last edited by beckoa; Feb 23, 2015 at 3:28 am Reason: Removing URL's
Jul 29, 2013, 4:50 pm
#30
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Land of the parrots and parrotheads
Programs: Several dozen
Posts: 4,820
